On Xbox, the Last Wish completion is 3.78% Leviathan is 12.81%, and Prestige Leviathan is only 5.27%. Most of that 5.27% was when the achievement was for the Raid or Nightfall. ...and there was that HUGE stink made over Prestige Raid requiring CoO. lol ...of all the things to rage over... lol

Funny enough, I had a forum member argue me down that over 50% had beaten Last Wish because Braytech-dot-org said so, when I knew that would’ve meant XBOX and PC (given PS4 is the largest segment of the community) would’ve had to over-index by a HUGE number to make up for PS4’s 3%. Now that you’ve confirmed the XBOX numbers, I again would luv to know what Bungo thinks of that kinda engagement in their endgame. PS: If there is a PC equivalent to console trophies, I’d luv to know the numbers as well.

Raids have always had very low completion percentages. Not sure if that's enough to speak to whether or not it's too easy or not

Of course raids have a low completion percentage but when there’s a raid that has a completion percentage of 3 and 4% on PS4 and XBOX respectively (I don’t have the numbers for PC), then maybe, just maybe Bungo needs to reassess things. Unless they don’t see a problem with this. But how would we know when the only evidence we have of them, are comments about how Gladd or Datto interact with the content.

But realistically speaking What is it that datto is doing that the average player can't do when it comes to raids? I mean other than maybe having a group of people that can raid every single day(whicb shouldn't be difficult to find tbh with access to clans and lfg via this website) Nothing be does is impossible for the average player

The vast majority of active PC players raid, its where the raiding scene migrated after D1. You also have to understand those percentages are always going to be low because anyone who had put D2 disc in to thier consoles are added to the "population" they use for trophies. A better way to determine raid activitiy is how many players raid compared to ACTIVE players.

I’m sure the PC raid scene is much more active than the console scene. Their superior in-game social features and direct access to outside apps also plays a part in this. As far as the trophies go, at least on PS4, it separates Forsaken owners from launch owners. Though I do agree that taking these statistic from only active users would give a better picture. That said, I’ve always contended that the lack of social features on console creates a barrier to endgame activities and is a driving force to players becoming inactive. In the end, I’d luv Bungo to put some of these stats out themselves. But since the backlash over the fact that only a few thousand people got the Redrix Claymore, they’ve not wanted to get that specific.

If only more people on Xbox knew about the built-in LFG system...it makes finding people for activities super quick and easy. Not sure what they have on PS4, but it needs a system like that as well.

I’d be curious too, but I doubt the numbers on PC would drastically affect the % lol I wonder how many of those PC Raid completions are people that migrated to PC after having played a console version. But kudos to Bungie for putting so much time and effort into content hundreds of people will even see.

It isn't Bungies fault that players depend their money and choose to miss out on the best content.

[quote]It isn't Bungies fault that players depend their money and choose to miss out on the best content.[/quote] It totally is: because the content is not made for everyone to enjoy. Like the famous Forum words: "git gud"; wether it's pve or pvp. The content is made to challenge people for the most part, but what's a challenge to some is impossible to others. Now the "git gud" argument comes into play. I raided every week in D1 (4 manned Atheon on hard mode), then made a post the other day about the raids being overdone/overcomplicated and I was told to "git gud" a couple times. What I left out of the post was I've completed a couple raids on here, and while I didn't solo carry the whole team each raid, I'm "gud". I can mimic the videos we have to watch to do things (that's a whole other discussion), I can follow instructions. My post was about how more people did raids in D1 compared to D2. Was it because those people suddenly aren't "gud"? No. Individual skill doesn't matter in this game when it comes to raids because people are only as good as their team; myself included and that goes for pvp and pve. (I know there are some solo exceptions but they are few and far between.) I finally got some clanmates to do Crown after how many months of it being out? Not because they weren't "gud", but because of the design/mechanics (and those asinine revive tokens which is my biggest complaint). While the content is good, it's bad that nobody wants to touch it because it's designed to be harder than it should be for the average video game player. It's designed to make a video and get views, not be enjoyed.

No. It actually is on the player to put in effort to try and put the dedication in to play said content. No game with raids say "everyone deserves to complete the raid" its always "the option is there if players are dedicated to do so". [quote]No. Individual skill doesn't matter in this game when it comes to raids because people are only as good as their team; myself included and that goes for pvp and pve. (I know there are some solo exceptions but they are few and far between.) I finally got some clanmates to do Crown after how many months of it being out? Not because they weren't "gud", but because of the design/mechanics (and those asinine revive tokens which is my biggest complaint). While the content is good, it's bad that nobody wants to touch it because it's designed to be harder than it should be for the average video game player. It's designed to make a video and get views, not be enjoyed.[/quote] No, individual skill does play a factor into raiding. There is a raid individual floor and a group floor when it comes to raiding. You need to be skilled enough to do the job/role you are given in a group, if you don't you will get replaced eventually because you are then holding back the group. If the group as a whole is causing issues thats when the group needs to step up and talk about what they can fix TOGETHER. I know what I am talking about as I am a co leader of a static and basically a full time raider not just in Destiny but also in FFXIV Savage. I have had to say 'goodbye' to former static members that were holding the group back because they couldn't do their jobs to a level that was needed for the content and were holding back the group. The fact of the matter is though, D2 asks you as an individual player very little in raids and if you can't do a simple thing as killing adds and do an elementary mechanic that has been around in raiding for nearly a decade... you need to put time into the game and get better at it. Raids have always and I do mean ALWAYS designed for dedicated players, not average players. However, Destiny raids ARE designed at the difficulty for average players, thats a known fact that is critized by the raiding community on a near daily basis. The reason why participation is so low is because the rewards are unimpressive, the game lacks in game LFG, and the encounter design isn't interesting as its more basic than anything. These are the reasons why raids in D2 fail compared to D1. Do people all of a sudden forget that in D1 hard mode you had 0 revives at all? How about King's Fall Oryx fight being a thing that is still the most difficult raid encounter so far Bungie has made? Encounter design overall in D1 wasn't much different than that of D2 as it also was severly basic for the most part in its design, the rewards however were worth doing. The thing in D1 however was the aesthetic of raiding was indeed higher than it is in D2. The raids themselves from a looks stand point are better and raiding was prestigious in D1, D2 there is no prestige as the gear in raiding is mediocre at best with very few exceptions outside of raid exotics that are mostly outclass by other exotics found in non raid content.

[quote]No game with raids say "everyone deserves to complete the raid" its always "the option is there if players are dedicated to do so".[/quote] Which is why I didn't buy or play other games with raids. I bought Destiny, not World of Warcraft. I played Final Fantasy 1 way back, before it turned into the overproduced thing it is now. I knew those other games were out there, but I didn't want to play them because it's too much overboard bloat. Do I like the raids in Destiny(1)? Yes. I liked them because they weren't like those other games; they were fun. Yes, I remember Oryx very well, and remember doing the challege mode making all the bombs detonate at once. Still more fun than most of the raids now in my opinion. None of that would have happened without a team, regardless of skill level. Everyone [b][u]should[/u][/b] be able to experience them with all the effort put into them and celebrate them, but they literally can't because they're too much for most people.

Then start getting the band wagon for normal modes to be scaled towards matchmaking and bring back hard modes for the dedicated playerbase. The moment players say "you don't need hard mode" every single current raider will say " F U for taking content away from us". The game desperately needs challenging content for dedicated players who play the game to sink their teeth in. Its the main reason I don't play D2 more than once a week, no point when there isn't anything for a dedicated PvE player to do. [quote]Which is why I didn't buy or play other games with raids. I bought Destiny,[/quote] ... but... one of the first things bungie teased about destiny when we got info was about VoG being a raid...