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Editado por TheArtist:
8/14/2019 12:47:19 PM
50
[i]Post hoc ergo propter hoc.[/i]
It means "After this, therefore because of this".
Or the error in thinking is more simply described in English...."Correlation is not Causation".
If you read Smith's blog, he makes it clear that these incoming nerfs aren't do to Datto complaining. The fact that Datto made his rant a week before Smith's blog is just a coincidence.
The changes are incoming for two reasons.
1. The Dev team (rightly or wrongly) is committed to "challenging" end-game content. Well of Radiance---IN COMBINATION WITH EXOTICS THAT BYPASS RELOAD MECHANICS AND AMMO ECONOMY----was breaking the game, and forcing them to break their own design rules in order to make the game challenging. Whch is why there are so many scenarios in the game right now that we experience as cheap-and-frustrating. Smith is acknowledging that these aren't fun to play against.
2. (He hints at this but doesn't say it explicitly) Its limiting what they can do from a design standpoint in the sandbox. If you had added Bad Juju to the game without the nerfs that were made to the Super-regen exotics....you'd have broken the game. Menagerie would have been reduced to nothing but 6 Guardian's continually spamming supers.
In short, PVE would be like Mayhem in the Crucible. Which would have gotten tired....and tiresome...pretty quickly.
TLDR: I.....HATE.....NERFS!!! Especially in power-fantasy games like this one. But sometimes----like pruning a bush----they result in a healthier game. Turn down Well.....rework Lunafactions boots and the super regen exotics.....and you clear the way for the game giving us power in a wider variety of ways.
....and gives us an opportunity to interact with the game more creatiively.
I'm a Warlock main. If I have to give on Well of Radiance. So that other supers can be buffed (Stormtrance). Other abilities can be buffed (grenades)....and we can have more powerful and interesting weapons to chase after and play with.....
.....Count me in. The game will be better off in the long term.
English
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You realize if they nerf it and make another raid boss that is hurt in the same fashion, well is still going to be mandatory right? (Unless they completely destroy it which would be insane to do) Thinking certain things need to be nerfed so that others may be buffed is nonsense, where's the sniper buff that was supposed to help them carry anything against Whisper's "punishing" of them. Nowhere. Nerfing Whisper hasn't actually done anything other than take it out of the game pretty much because it has nothing going for it anymore, Darci has it beat since the damage difference is irrelevant to any boss. Nerfing Well won't stop the need to huddle in the auto-reload circle that the boss asks you to do so that you may nade his face into oblivion. Only a change in design is gonna fix that "need well" reality.
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1. I didnt' say that either the extent of the problem or the solution to the problem was nerfing Well. The problem is a bad design philosophy AND a sandbox that is an unbalanced KLUDGE right now. Our main ability to deal damage to difficult enemies right now is through our supers. Destiny 1 wasn't like that. That needs to chang 2. You can only make that change to the more balanced sandbox and more balanced combat that we had in Destiny 1, by NERFING Well....and these exotics that create special/heavy ammo....or keep feeding us our supers back. If you don't....you handcuff the devs everywhere else. Because anything creative risks becoming a game-breaking build. If you can't see that throwing Bad Juju on top of pre-nerf Skull or Phoenix Protocol would have been game-breaking....then this conversation is pointless. 3. Nerfing Whisper didn't take it out of the game. People abandoned Whisper because they found that Grenade launchers (plus/minus Tractor Cannon) delivered more damage....and was better suited for the close-range fight with the boss of the current raid. I just recently did my first runs of Scourge of the Past....and my raid team all equipped Whisper of the Worm.... ...and we dropped THREE Wells of Radiance for the Damage Phase. (Do you really want to continue to play a game where THAT is the solution to every problem? That gets stale. Yes Bungie needs to design different fights. But that ability to design different fights can be overwhelmed if we can do almost unlimited damage.....cough Riven) 4. I never said that a design change wasn't needed. But you can't really design mechanics differently if we can overwhelm them with unchecked DPS , unlimited ammo, and massive buffs to our damage output. TLDR: Well of radiance was added to the game as a desperation move. So were the super-regen exotics. When vanilla D2 flopped, Bungie needed to funnel power to us....but was shackled with a game that had been designed from the ground up to LIMIT our power. Amping up our supers and using exotics to circumvent these power limits were the only way to get us power quickly. But its led to an unbalanced sandbox.....unidimensional combat (go do a public event....and watch a half dozen supers get unloaded on the boss) ....and now its limiting what they can do designwise. Their design philsophy needs to change.....but they also need to take back some of this power from these buff supers....so they they can give us power in other ways. ....and give us other options to approach a fight. I watched The Division 1 go thorugh this same problem.....on a much grander scale....back in 2016....and it emerged from the overhaul (which involved MASSIVE nerfs to player abilities, and an overall retuning of the game) a MUCH better game.
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Editado por PAPASITO 30: 8/15/2019 12:04:59 AMStormtrance is already incredible powerful. Your whole post falls flat once you wrote that. Bungie doesn't even read these forums, they use Reddit, so all this Ad Hominem is falling on deaf ears.
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Stormtrance in D2 is useless for anything other than clearing trash mobs. It is a TERRIBLE super for damaging high-priority targets like bosses and mini-bosses unless you use Chaos Reach. Stormtrance in D1 was one of the most powerful supers in the game. Effective at both clearing rooms and damaging high priority targets. When I would run it in strikes I would typically DOUBLE the kill total of anyone else on the strike team. But for D2 they nerfed both its duration AND its damage output....and it has NEVER been the same....and no reason to ever use it for anything other than shits-and-giggles. Chaos Reach is is good for melting Gambit bosses....but not much else.
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Negative. Stormtrance is powerful at what it does: add clear. Boss dps? That's reach. This was a silly point.
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Which translates to "I can't form an actual argument against the over arching point being made. But I disagree so i'm going to latch onto one minor thing to justify me ignoring the entirety of the post just to brown nose you." Grow up.
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Kelly Green is that your alt account?
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Are you a child? No. And me and Kelly have argued plenty in the past. The guy largely craps on destiny. I almost never agree with him.
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Editado por PAPASITO 30: 8/14/2019 11:32:01 PMNah, I just don''t really care about Raiding and pve that much. It is such a small part of Destiny 2 for me. Destiny 1 I raided a lot but in 2, I hardly ever do it. I probably have 2 raid completions per raid then I move on to crucible. I don't run Reckoning. But I do not agree with him about the Stormtrance so if he thinks it needs a buff, I fully disagree with him.
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It's fine to disagree. Just odd that you'd dismiss an argument in it's entirety simply because you disagree over a relatively minor point in the post that's largely not related to the point being made.
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Well of Radiance is fine. It gives average players a chance at completing the raid. I think making the game even more challanging for Datto and his crew isn't the answer. Just my 2 cents.
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I don't think you understand. The team has to break their own encounter rules to account for people who are nearly unkillable and don't have to reload. It isn't being nerfed to appease the 2% of hardcore players looking for a real challenge. Because they'ed have just as easily completed the raid like they always have. It's being adjusted because it's a fundemental problem for the design team that limits their capabilities when it comes to making encounters which in turn overly punishes people who do not run the same setup.
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Editado por PAPASITO 30: 8/15/2019 12:05:40 AMJust because Well of Radiance is the most efficient way for running an encounter, doesn't make it broken. It is part of the game, so why not use it. How does it limit their capabilities? If for example there wasn't a well of radiance there, half these encounters would be almost impossible to complete. Reckoning would be even harder than it is now, it was pain in the butt for a long time. How does making things that are hard easier a bad thing? I don;t want to spend my entire day running the raids dude. I have a life.
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Editado por Knight Raime: 8/14/2019 11:48:02 PMI'm not going to write out a paragraph for what has already been explained by both Luke and Datto. If you can't seem to grasp the concept that they have to over tune encounters to make things threatening for people who literally dump endless amounts of damage at basically no risk then there's nothing to be said. The fact that people were literally day 1 one phasing the last raid encounter should be an alarm. You having "a life" is literally not relevant at all and holds zero weight. Maybe you shouldn't be playing a loot based grind game if you can't put in the time. Not everything is for you. Not everything has to be catered to you.
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Editado por PAPASITO 30: 8/15/2019 12:01:08 AMI don't care about what Datto already EXPLAINED to me. I am not some Youtuber lover that follows his every word, and has to quote him in posts. Maybe this game isn't for you? What are you an elitist? The game is for me. Last I checked it is in every store, and anyone can buy it. The game is for me dude. Last I checked majority of players were fairly average like me and not the 5% . So there is no need to design the game for 5% of players who can complete the last encounter on boss, which nobody cares about. You can check Destinytrack and see raid completions. How many completions of the raid were there for this new raid. Out of 100 people on my friend list maybe 5 completed the current raid. Maybe they should be worried more about why people aren't raiding on D2, instead of looking at OP well of radiance. So just because 5% of players are able to totally wreck an encounter because they utilize the best strats, lets make the rest of the game hard for everybody else? So then why do people still fail so hard on Reckoning? Minus coordinate groups. Lets just ignore old content then completely when speaking about this.
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Which translates to "I don't care why something is being taken from me i'm throwing a fit because it's being taken from me." Reality check, your money gives you the ability to play. It doesn't afford you the right to have the developers make the game around your specific needs. If you don't want to/can't put in the time to have a proper loadout without the game holding your hand through pinnicle content then said content is not catered to individuals like you. Saying that Well allows people like you to play raids and should stay because of that is like me asking the devs to design raid encounters to be soloable since I can't reliably get a team i'm comfortable with to raid. Well brakes design encounters for everything not just raids. So your just wall of babble about raids completions and what not is irrelevant. Both reckoning and minagerie were both sited by Luke when having to design around the well setup. You've already had it explained to you on why well and it's setup is a problem. And you openly state that you do not care and try to defend it with half baked reasoning. So there is no reason for me to further reply after this.
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Look. What part of "tailoring content to well" do you not understand? Well is so good that it's forced to be used. And, in some cases it's mandatory. Not every warlock wants to run well constantly in a raid, and there should not be content that forces it. Example? RECKONING. Think with your own brain here and stop just datto hating. LORD.
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So how tasty is the Bungie peener you have in your mouth? Just asking
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Teenagers and their homophobic jokes. You do realize that kind of humor stops being funny....and the insults stop having any impact once **real** women agree to have sex with you, right? Which makes your insult about......30 years too late have any effect on me.
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To be fair, this dude shits on bungie just as much as everyone else. He will occasionally give them credit when he feels it's due though.
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Even the most hardcore fanboys have a breaking point.
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...and children eventually grow up. Mostly.
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The key to your logic is giving up some things and other things get buffed. If this happens then what you’re saying is good. If this doesn’t happen then there’s no overall improvement just a regression in space fantasy.
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Agreed. ....and if this were still a Jon Weisznewski led sandbox team....I wouldn't be nearly so optimistic. But Smith made it clear yesterday, that he's aware that he has to walk a fine line between Challenge and power-fantasy....and has already seen what how this community reacts when power-fantasy isn't respected. So I think we won't be repeating past mistakes, since we no longer have people actively advocating for them.
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He also mentions that MCCs are payin for content. More bs. Like they don't have enough money from Destiny 2 sales. It was only like second best selling game of 2017. And Destiny one was best seller of that year. SO you are telling me, best selling game with continued user base can't afford to make missions. I call bs.
