TBF jotun is all or nothing and is very easy to dodge at long range. if it hits you at long range, you watched it come for your face.

This is seriously the most intelligent post I've read about PvP all week.

No they won’t. That was Destiny 2 year 1. Yeah. The one that ruined the game, had its lowest player count, and was ridiculed by the entire gaming community. It becomes teamshot fest with everyone being buttbuddies and sitting in the back.

[quote]No they won’t. That was Destiny 2 year 1. Yeah. The one that ruined the game, had its lowest player count, and was ridiculed by the entire gaming community. It becomes teamshot fest with everyone being buttbuddies and sitting in the back.[/quote] Stop equating D2 launch with anything. They totally f-Cked all the progress up. Went to far on the wrong direction and did exactly what Bungie always do. Way to much or way to little.

[quote][quote]No they won’t. That was Destiny 2 year 1. Yeah. The one that ruined the game, had its lowest player count, and was ridiculed by the entire gaming community. It becomes teamshot fest with everyone being buttbuddies and sitting in the back.[/quote] Stop equating D2 launch with anything. They totally f-Cked all the progress up. Went to far on the wrong direction and did exactly what Bungie always do. Way to much or way to little.[/quote] This entirely. There is for some inexplicably otherworldly reason never any middle ground with this dev.

In the end of the day Destiny 2 is a participation trophy game. The story and the basic activities are way too easy. You couldn't fail in the menagerie even you you try to. The Raids might not be as challenging today as when they came out... The Pinnacle weapons are behind a wall where you actually need to be good at something, but in the end of the day comp has become a lottery except you play with a pre-made team. All the matchmaking short comings aside, there is nothing competitive about firing a Wardcliff Coil or a Jötun into the approximative direction of an enemy and get kills 80% of the time. Grenade launchers that shoot bullets that travel the walls, now everyone is screaming for PVE Enemy Weapons, what will the crucible become when everyone has a boomer? I think it is cool that there these dumbed down game modes with all it's physical errors but there are a lot like me that love the old fashioned gun battle based on skill, reaction time and precision. Those people might not frequent the forums too much, but trust me there are a lot of people who are fed up with these Jötun & Co. Nonsense.

Wasn't the main critique that it was 4vs4? All I suggested was an additional game mode for those who like it. Honestly Destiny 2 Year One wasn't half as broken as the nonsense with 40% aimless kills today. On the positive side, they already admitted that they went the wrong direction and allegedly they will do everything to please us, lol

[quote]Honestly Destiny 2 Year One wasn't half as broken as the nonsense with 40% aimless kills today.[/quote] You're wrong on that one buddy. Its at least 60% aimless kills.

Haha was trying to be diplomatic

The sad thing is that I was too.

The main critique was not 4v4. The reason 4v4 went away was because it was very competitive all the time and many old fans stopped playing because of the only 4 people rule. Not to mention 6v6 was always just more fun with more kills and encounters. The main critique was the sitting in the back and team shotting. It’s a main reason why scout rifles are in a bad place all of the time. When the game started they were the meta. Like a really terrible meta. Everyone would sit together and team shot with Midas and other scouts to win. It was boring and the game lost its longevity and playerbase because of it. I’d rather not have Bungie waste time with a game mode that’s just the old sandbox that sunk the game in the first year. The reason one shot weapons like shotguns, fusions, and other things are needed, is because it means 1 person can disrupt a whole team and run/gun. It meant you made a difference. And you can rush. There are more ways to play the game. Sitting in the back with a mida or graviton Lance is the most boring sandbox we had ever had. No one took any risks, broke apart, and solo players were punished severely. This game mode would overall be underused after the novelty went away. But no, the thing you are describing was just that. You obviously were not present during that time.

I was there, I didn't experience it in this way but I haven't played that much PvP back then as I do today, so I have no representative opinion. Regarding Jötun, i don't like the whole nerfing shenanigans, good weapons end up sucking because people cried too loud. Take Jötun and all grenade launchers and put them where they belong in the power weapon slot. This will lead to better game play and is as close as it gets to my desired Rifle Mode. I can deal getting killed by Erentil and Co and especially shot guns since it requires skill, it bugs me being killed by blind fire grenade launchers and an OP weapon like Jötun that worst of all is an RNG drop and didn't require a skill to claim it.

The main reason grenade launchers are good is because most don’t 1 shot on direct hit unless it’s spike grenades and sometimes concussion. The grenade launchers themselves are actually pretty terrible. Most people just use them to get mountaintop because it’s good for dps in raids. And nerfs are needed. In every game, nerfs are needed. We kill bosses so fast and kill everything so fast, that the only way to top other things is for Bungie to make even more broken things. Or buff things to make them broken. Like grenade launchers. Eventually every boss will either die too quick, or have way too much health for anything but a specific weapon type. Look at Calus as an example. You can destroy calus in 1 phase with a whole fire team of SUNSHOTS. That’s his health pool. Light doesn’t matter for damage as your scaled down to everything else. Something like subshot wouldn’t even scratch Ghalran or the deceptions. The bosses just get more and more tanky with the more powerful stuff we get. A lot of games get it, power creep. Everything just needs to one up everything else. That’s why nerfs are needed. Bungie knows this as a principle of game design. That’s why whisper and super regaining stuff was nerfed. Because they became required for every activity. Last Wish? Whisper. Scourge? Whisper. Any pve activity requiring dps? Whisper. The infinite ammo and the damage outclassed EVERYTHING. Same with super regaining stuff. No reason to use anything else if you can get unfits supers. The reason I’m getting into pve, is because Bungie has stated a lot that the feeling of things should be consistent between the two modes of play. They aren’t going to change the sandbox for one thing. Like Jotunn. Jotuun needs a nerf whether we want it or not. Remove the tracking, or reduce it in some way. Or increase the charge time or something. Moving jotuun and gl’s the heavy slot would just make them useless. Why use the jotuun when truth or wardcliff exist? Or why use orwings maul when play of the game exists? Nerfs to the weapon need to happen do it isn’t easy to use and powerful, but so it can still be used and wrecked with when used correctly. A nerf similar to telesto. It’s still used, but not incredibly overpowered compared to other fusions while still having a reason to use it.

Clearly you are not wrong and every word in all your answers makes sense but in the end of the day nerfing is the lazy method to handle things. One of the main reasons why Bungie always gets butt paddled is because of the insane potential and the lackluster approach thereof. Remember when there was a heroic mode for raids? Do you know how little work it would be to change the damage output of a raid enemy and to increase the bullet sponge? This is very little work. They could go beyond that and make a mythic option and so on. The point why I want Jötun in the power slot is because it behaves that way, if you put it in the power slot or remove tracking in both cases people will stop using it. Let it be the fun weapon that it is but make sure it is not used in crucible twice per play per spawn. That was kinda my point :)

I see what you are saying, I see a distinct difference in nerfs and adjustments. Like my Orpheus Rigs, they are not useless but they are not as crutch either. They just take a little more planning and I may not get a full super. I do however get a good portion of my super back. I consider a nerf something that would make the item actually worthless. Whereas an adjustment would be more of a balancing approach, to hopefully even the field a little. We all know how it usually turns out though.