Actually, if you read jason schreier's in depth article on the development of destiny, listen to Luke Smith's ramblings, read anonymous reviews on glass door and watch the various vidocs, you can form an opinion ☺ Also just from the general state of the game and a knowledge of the games industry in general ☺ I haven't corrected your spelling, I indicated an issue with your argument.

There are different forms of grind. One is "Korean" style, that involves farming scrotums of some purple whine-beard males of seven-winged roach that has 0.00001% of spawn rate, on the other side of spectrum we have games like Borderlands, that shower you with gear. Maybe bad gear, but hey, it's better than nothing. Take Diablo for example. I played a lot in 2, as Paladin/Smiter. Reached top level. My best weapon was kris. Yes, smiter's weapon is a shield, but weapon itself is also important. For all those hours spent in game, I haven't seen anything better. Diablo 3, reason I quit - it forces me to play too much in doing bounties, that problematic with their connection issues. Basically there is no progress save and if you got DC, you have to start over. Even if you almost killed fifth boss. Loot? Well, most of it was duplicate of what I had, only worse. Or totally not for my playstyle. Grim Dawn, on the other hand, always rewards me with new stuff, frequently same types I'm using, only better. Oh, and no stupid grind to farm those scrotums, right. Technically there is, only it drops in normal rates, so you don't have to ground your arse off to farm it. I know nothing on Division, so I can't say anything on the subject. I don't know how loot drops, when it drops, properties, etc. All I can say regarding our words on M-60, is that I got my first (and best) Hazard of the Cast AFTER I got my Breakneck, and got 5K kills with it. Since then, until recently, I got only 7 totally. Basically once per reset. This season I got 3 more, two in one day, one after another. All 3 suck, but anyway. I don't know how much time I spent playing Prime/Reckoning, but not getting not best, but any Spare Rations for 200 matches? I think that's a weee bit too freaking much. But I know this: ArmA series. You know what grind is there to get gun you want with mods you want? Well, just walk to weapon crate and pick it up. If mission author allows (strange to expect Aimpoint in WWII settings), you can pick up whatever you want. None I know left because "there is no grind". People leave because game is hard, different from games they play, there is no "lolnoscope while jumping and doing 360", they can't understand who kills them and how. See that bush 800 metres away? Well, there is sniper hiding. Yes, there is no laser (technically are, but IR and you need NVG to see them, so no sniper would ever use one). Yes, there is no scope glint. There are flashlights, but unless you turn them on no one will see them, and they are pointless during daylight. Oh, and during moonless nights it is almost complete darkness. There are starts alright, but if skies are cloudy it is literally black screen. Assetto Corsa, yes, it racing simulator, but every car and track are unlocked the moment you bought the game. Fun fact, Demo version had ONE car (nothing fancy) and ONE track (ditto). It sold me not just the game and all following content as well, but steering wheel. With force feedback. Not Fanatec, no, but pretty expensive one. Because playing is fun. I got Redrix, the only Crucible weapon I can get (theoretically Revoker is next, but me and sniping?:D). Had I stopped playing it? No, quite the contrary. I'm playing, and I'm using Redrix everywhere. Even if it is not "meta" and I'm losing because bungee designers are dorks and this weapon type is outdated. This game is shooter, guns are tools of generating entertainment. Why lock them out? Those who don't like something, they either won't play, or quit as soon as they get something acceptable (friend of mine got Blast Furnace with Rampage and he no longer plays forges). Only those truly enjoying or dedicated will do. Those people playing for bounties? They are not healthy addition. I don't even mean AFKiers. Even from mathematical point of view, our chances get Service Revolver with perks you want are just few thousandth of a percent. 0.00#%. Noice, right? Again, from mathematical point of view I should have at least one other Rampage/Feeding Frenzy (or Outlaw). Nope, none. Air Assault/Slideshot (or Air Assault with anything else)? Plenty. In fact, I got only 5 Feeding Frenzy ever, 1 Rampage, 2 Kill Clips, 2 rubbish rolls (headseeker/high impact reserves).

Just yesterday I had very similar discussion with another user.:) No, I do all my powerful frames on Bergusia, and many ordinary ones as well, because it is easier to get there in one go, and I'm lazy. I love Izanami more, but getting there is a bit annoying. Gofannon is my least played forge, basically I played there only when required, when doing Le Monarque kills (and I wasn't speeding things up, so it was like 15 runs at least), and when there is a relevant bounty and I need that modulus report while forging ordinary frame from it anyway. As I'm lazy I'd kill two birds with one stone. Besides, I'm titan main, boss there is flying, and my supers are not that good against flying target that teleports. Ugh. PEREGRINE GREAVES may help, but... I'd rather punch that tank. Or hydra. :D So I got nine Le Monarques from Bergusia, including one yesterday. I wasn't expecting that, so I didn't make a screenshot.

Yup. People play mode because they like it. Or they need loot that drops from it. IF it drops at all (like it is for me with Spare Rations). Seriously, I don't give a flying fvck about Luna's Howl or even Not Forgotten, but if I could, I'd pay for Spare Rations. These 150s are so freaking elusive, it feels like game openly trolling me, denying me items I look for. I dived into Gambit this season only to get Banshee's bounties (and honestly, I don't think I'll do that again - too much hustle and bustle:)), in parallel working on Hush. I got it and... I don't want to play it any more. Yes, I got 3 Hazard of the Cast more this season (with is like the half of what I got earlier (7, so slightly less:)), but I still don't have Spare Rations (not a single freaking one, and Crucible is full of people running with one), nor do I have good Bygones. It is my third most frequent gun from Gambit, but most of those suck! I kept only two, Full-Auto/Rampage, and Outlaw/Kill Clip. First for range, second, well, Outlaw/Kill Clip. Of Trust (which is my second most frequent reward) I got one I can accept - Explosive/Dragonfly with mediocre range. Others are just one big "ugh!". Outlaw/Rampage was my final Trust from Gambit after which I quit for entire May, but range on that gun? Worst possible. Menagerie gave me several Outlaw/Rapid Hit and it makes me giggle every time I see them. Especially one with Drop Mag. Thankfully no reloading masterwork. :D I've been doing Dreaming City legendary items rewards daily/weekly, with an exception of Blind Well this week (as it was broken), but... Waking Vigils are least rewarded guns from it, I have just four and all terrible. Vouchsafe? Anyone cares about Scout rifles? bungee doesn't, so next! Twilight Oath? Have some, but not with roll I'd want, let alone curated. Actually I never seen curated DC weapon at all. And I played like 900+ hours already. Togerspite? Plenty of those, even one I'd consider good roll, but autorifles are kinda suck now. Rocket launchers? Oh yeah, shit ton of those. As well as BAD OMENS, which are also my most frequent reward from Gambit, including direct copy of curated one. :D Several, in fact. That's why I disagree with Lono on intentionality. What is the freaking problem let me customize my freaking gear? 400 runs on forges? Is there any tracker telling how many hours I dunked into them? And still not getting what I want? I'd still be playing, only playing modes I like (which are, ironically, forges:)), or at least without worrying "oh, I need a better roll". That's why I dived into Crucible this season - I know I'm terrible (imagine high quality bungee matchmaking, if my already abysmal statistics managed to DROP, yes, by 0.01, but STILL!), thus I know I'll never get anything, so why worry about loot, just go and pew-pew. And that's what I'm doing. I do that because I'm tired from not getting loot I look for. And it's not like I'm demanding Not Forgotten. For fvck sake, my first ever Go Figure with Outlaw/Rampage came three days ago, when I had 890 hours played. It was 107th. So far I see literally ZERO reasons to buy anything new from bungee - why do that if old content ploughs me over just fine? My loot life is miserable enough, I don't need more loot I'll never get. I'd say we need four things. 1. Fixed roll. Like Scathelocke (which I only got 2, btw, and I regularly drop dusk-whatever to Devrim (I still have 1.5K after buying tributes:D)). It should be first roll on every item you have. Most universal one. 2. Curated roll. Not necessarily second one you'll get, in case of farm-able items It should be around 25th mark. In random drops - about 10th Or 5th (because outside of Menagerie I got only 4 Waking Vigils:)). This roll should be highlighting most optimal usage for a weapon. 3. Random rolls. No problem there, as long as items are farm-able (like Right Side of Wrong). We have plenty of spaces where we could have specific loot. Add guaranteed drop for particular heroic public events and voila. Want some sidearm? Go farm Injection rig. 4. Custom rolls. Banshee/Ada/Drifter should give us an option to custom job our gear. We may not be as cool as Cayde, but we should have an option to build what we want. In my case, I think 400 forge runs, and about 700 Gambit matches (8 infamy resets) are significant time investment to allow me to at least replace bloody masterwork. I don't need reload on top of Drop Mag AND Feeding Frenzy! *angry man yells at clouds*

Right on. I'm on vacation and can't wait to play destiny again when I'm back home. I've been turned off from playing since about october but got more into when I heard about menagerie. I need to invest more in pve to try to get some new weapon though. I mostly just played PvP quick play but got into menagerie. It was fun to be part of a team. Did 2 or 3 runs but so far zero weapons from the activity lol

This is the part that sometimes makes me feel disappointed with this game. I know a lot of things I would love to see could never be supported by the current loot pool. I honestly don't know what can de done to change that at this point. We're technically still building off the base of D2.