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Destiny 2

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3/29/2019 2:40:16 AM
33

Zavala is hot garbage at politics

[spoiler]side note: thanks to JacktheCatdog for making his/her post on this topic as well because this post is pretty much just a repeat/comment to his/hers, but way too long to be a comment. [/spoiler] [spoiler]also i apologize for any spelling errors because i am making this from a mobile device and i'm not the best when it comes to grammer[/spoiler] 1 The problem is and was always our blue friend Vuvzela. Don't get me wrong, he is an amazing soldier and a pretty darn good leader, but he is crap for brains when it comes to politics. He has shown great military leadership and tactics because taking back the City was an almost insurmountable task, but he managed to get it done. 2 [i]However[/i], his first major display of political crapness was when the Speaker died and was not replaced. 3 Something you have to understand about the Speaker is, while he was pretty much useless to us as a Guardian and a player, he was the greatest asset to the people of the City as its leader. There is probably so much stuff that is not include in the lore that he did, just because of the nature of his job. He was the desicive vote in the Consensus because he never aligned with the Factions nor the Vanguard. 4 The way the Consensus is structured, there are 7 seats, three of them are the Vanguard, three of them are the leading faction leaders, and the other one is the Speaker. The Speaker was considered leader and the most important because he was neither civilian nor military. The Consensus is a good oligarchal system, with an accurate representation of the civilian population working with the military to have equal power and a seperate body to make a desicion, should the civilian and military leaders go into gridlock. 5 The Factions have to fight themselves and the Consensus in order to push their own agendas, so they will never gain enough power to take over the government, but they can band together to prevent a power hungry Vanguard from becoming oppressive. In the middle of this all, you have the Speaker, who is balancing the Factions and the Miltary, the people and the Guardians, all on his own shoulders, making for a very balanced and well put together government. 6 In d2, Zavala never instated a Speaker. He should have taken up the Speaker's mantle himself, or appointed somebody else as the Speaker. However, he didn't. By taking away this decisive vote, he greatly hurts the ability for the Consensus to make desicions. Every time military and civillian agendas collide, the conflict is never resolved because there is no tie breaker vote. He does not understand that a government must have all of its roles filled, even if some of the positions are temporary. 7 If any of you Americans that remember your high school civics lesson, then you would know the story of when Ronald Reagan got shot. When he was shot, the Vice President was in an airplane, and, at the time, he was at too high of an altitude to communicate with. So, all of the federal department heads went into a closet to figure out who was the next President. The moral of the story is, the government has to go on, no matter what. 8 In Destiny, the City went without a "President" for an entire [i]year[/i]. For an entire year there was no tie breaker vote, and that crippled the City. Slowly, the Consensus would have collapsed, leaving a vacuum of power in the City. However, when Cayde died, it sped up the downfall of the Consensus. Cayde was the glue that held Ikora and Zavala together, but when he died, their differences in opinion caused the Vanguard to become an endless pit of argument. 9 If you try to make a model house out of toothpicks using no glue or tape, i can almost guarantee it will fall. If by some miracle you manage to keep it standing, somebody could simply walk by and tap it with their pinkie finger, and it would fall. You woukd have to be an engineering genius to get a construction like that to be stable, and Zavala is far, far from a political genius. 10 Now, the Consensus is 5 seats, no HV, no Speaker. This means that all the power is invested into the factions, but before i dive into that, there are some details about faction rallies that are worth stating before Forsaken happens. 11 Faction rallies are a power game. They know that Guardians are dancing morons that only care about loot. So, for a week, they offer these Guardians extra loot if they bring in supplies for the faction. The people see their favorite Crucible champions pledging alliegance to *insert faction choice here* and then the buy that faction's stuff. This means that the factions not only have powerful Guardians at their bidding for an entire week, but they also have more people buying their stuff, raking in profit and resources. This means they have more power, so they can further their agenda, so they can get ahead and have more of a say in the Consensus, so that they just might be able to overrule the Vanguard. 12 If the Speaker were alive for d2 y1, faction rallies would have [i]never[/i] been allowed. I wouldn't be surprised if the Speaker specifically banned the factions from trying to take so much power. However, the seats in d2 y1 were equal, and Zavala was too dumb to see that this is a power play, and that the factions were getting everything and the Vanguard nothing. You see, unlike Zavala, who was picked by Saint-14 because he was good at shooting bad guys, the Faction leaders had to climb their way to the top. Faction leaders understand the political game, and, without a Speaker, they are having a field day manipulating Zavala. 13 In Forsaken we don't have Faction Rallies because there is no reason for them. When Cayde dies, the Factions actually get the majority vote, so if they could pull their heads out of their own agendas and work together, they could essentially nullify the Vanguard with votes. Not only this, but they have supplies and money they need for the previous faction rallies. It is my belief that the sole reason as to why the Factions have not simply taken over is a fear of Faction Wars part 2. They know that if they take over, the other 2 factions will rise up to fight against them, and things might get bloody, not to mention the many, many threats that are outside of the City. For however much crap the Vanguard are at this point, they are still holding it together somewhat. 14 Through all this, you also have more moving parts, such as the Praxic Order and the Drifter. 15 As I understand it, the praxic order is like a sub orginization under the Vanguard, but they operate independently of the Vanguard, so they have their own agendas. They see the failing Vanguard, so they start doing illegal stuff because who's gonna stop them? They are already pretty powerful and the Vanguard can barely keep the blazing City going, so why not? Its free power. 16 And then you have the Drifter. It cannot be a coincidence that when Cayde-6 dies, the Drifter sets up shop. Drifter is smart, he sees the failing Vanguard, and, almost as a cocky slap in the face to Ikora, sets up within her sightline. Also, he was waiting for this chance becaue there is no introducing questline, no cute little cutscene, nothing that really introduced Gambit. The Drifter appears out of nowhere, almost to the moment when Cayde dies. How he knew when Cayde was going to die is a discussion for another day, but he struck at the perfect time to start doing illegal activity. Same as the Praxic Order, the Vanguard is not going to stop the Drfiter, especially because the Drifter has some sweet loot. Because, which is more important, your god-roll trust, or a crappy Vanguard that is losing control? 17 I know this is a lot of information to throw at a reader in one post, but i think i might have just about covered all the things that make Zavala an awful politician. The next part is about what happens next. Scenario 1. The Vanguard dissolves, leaving a power vacuum in the City and a responsible council convenes to create a new governement, kind of like JacktheCatdog's example of the Articles of Confederation. Likely Scenario 2. The Vanguard dissolves, leaving anarchy and thus, Gary laughs at us in his grave as the City burns down. Again, from JackheCatdog's post. Unlikely Scenario 3. The praxic order just takes over as the new Vanguard, they appoint a new Speaker if they have learned anything, and the Consensus is revitalized. Very Unlikely Scenario 4. The Drifter takes his portion of the Guardians that pledged alliegance to him and finds a home for all these Guardians, splitting off from the City and watching it fall again. Unlikely- depends on what the Drifter's plan is Scenario 5. The Factions take over, subsequently starting faction wars 2. Very Unlikely Scenario 6. The Factions take over, but are too afraid of war to have the strength to hold the City together. Each of them takes their people and completes their agendas. (Dead Orbit leaves and tries to colonize a new system, New Monarchy takes over the ruins of the City, and Future War Cult probably creates a big bunker filled with weapons and survival stuff) Likely Scenario 7. The Vanguard tries to keep a hold of itself until the Darkness comes in and "turns the City into a crater" - Archival Mind Very likely That is all i could come up with for now, but i might go in an edit this post if i think of anything else. I know this was a bit of a read, but i hope you enjoyed and/or got something out of my analysis of Zavala and his bad politics. Thank you for your time.
English
#lore #destiny2

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  • Also, about Cayde. Not only Drifter came back you know, there's also Shin. and the choice between the Vanguard and Drifter is funny, because the Vanguard side with the Drifter and Aunor undermines the Vanguard in order to investigate the Drifter, ultimately coming up with nothing. #witchhunt

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    • We can't really blame Zavala for all that. he's Vanguard Commander and sucks at his job yes, but it's not his job to fill a role that was self made by the Speaker himself. The Speaker was a warlock and use to fight in the before times predating the City's first settlers. And then relinquished himself too simply be a spokesperson and mentor to all. He was a self appointed leader. He also created the Consensus, that was his idea. Regarding how everything is falling apart, the one issue is that the various factions and Vanguards needed to be in support of each other. And even then weren't and things went bad. All the Guardians and factions share the same level of authority it's jsut a group majority on how some things get done. Take Shaxx for instance. Before Crota slaughtered thousands on the moon. Shaxx voted against going to the moon, until they had more info on the hive. No one listened and we weren't allowed on the moon until the Speaker sent one titan scout by himself to check it out, they died and then sends our guardian also, by themselves. Shaxx also told the Speaker to -blam!- off about him teaching guardians about Osiris' lessons. It's Shaxx job alone to run the Crucible the way he sees fit. Zavala sucks at his job, but its his job alone to -blam!- up and also Ikora, but she has the Hidden

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    • To me, the speaker always seemed to be more of a religious leader than a political one.

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    • Wonderful post! This makes so much sense. I always considered the Speaker to be a useless component but, now, I can see that this perception is based on hollow writing. He may have been a cryptic putz but his position kept things in balance.

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      • Sort of like Trump turd hes gonna leave this country in a worse state than any president in the history of the world.

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        • The Vanguard aren’t meant to be political leaders. Ikora states this fact in one page of the Stolen Intelligence lore book. However, she also does express her belief that the Vanguard might be failing, meaning she and Zavala might have to step down and allow for new leaders, so she’s asked the Hidden to take action and remove them if they deem it necessary.

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        • The Vanguard is part of the Consensus. They’re not “the Party”. Zavala is doing his job. He’s no power grabber like Mara and her ilk.

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        • In response to everything you said about the speaker, that’s not a role you can just replace. The speaker was a leader, but he wasn’t chosen through an election like a president, it was more like a Mandate of Heaven. He was supposed to be the voice of the traveler, so you can’t just pick anyone to replace him. We know he was a fraud from the campaign, but there’s no telling who else does. They need to wait until someone sorts forward who the traveler speaks to. The only person we know it’s spoken to is our guardian in that vanilla cutscene with the bird, and we’ve been too busy dealing with impending doom to become speaker. The lack of a replacement for hunter vanguard seems like more of a failure on his part because that is a job that any hunter can do, and there are plenty. And there’s nothing in game to support this, it’s just a theory based on your description of the power dynamics in the city, but faction rallies were a result of the speakers death. In d1, I could support my faction in anything and everything I did. After the speakers death, the vanguard forced the factions to change their allegiance system so that they didn’t grow too powerful. The factions could hold their weeklong fundraisers, but couldn’t get guardian support outside of that. I don’t think he’s doing a good job given all the shady things going on around the tower. Whether or not Aunor found anything bad about the drifter, surely you’d question a man with a nonexistent backstory before welcoming him into your home. It shouldn’t be hard to make sure all of your maintenance frames a working right and aren’t pledged to an alien power. And it shouldn’t be too much to go into your basement every once in a while to make sure there are no weapon makers with a grudge against the vanguard.

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          • As same as trump and erdogan... 😂

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          • I agree that Zavala is no politician. He never has been. The city and the multiple factions in it put him in that position. In defense of Zavala and the vanguard itself it was never meant to be the leadership of the city it has been the first and absolute last line of defense for the city itself. As part of the vanguard us guardians took missions that the militia could never handle alone taking down key targets over the years to keep the many enemies from gaining footholds in Sol territory. On his call we have done a lot of good. Zavala isn’t a king though he’s just a warrior. I’ve been listening to the hidden channels and scraps of data, he himself is aware of that fact. I don’t hate Zavala, disagree yes. But we shouldn’t outcast or abandon our old allies. A storm unlike any we’ve seen is coming guardians and we need all the help we can get.

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          • Blame the writing team who wouldn't give him a good moment. He could have been good but they made the decision to have him being stupid and incompetent just so other characters could shine in comparison (Hawthorne, Ana Bray, Ikora etc.). Personally I'd love to see him do something actually effective and heroic in D3 to show that he's actually competent, skilled, experienced in combat and all that and redeem how laughable he was in D2. Currently he's dangerously underdeveloped with much of his valor flat out stolen.

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            • Zavala should have died instead of Cayde.

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            • I mean, to be fair to him, he's gone through a lot in the past couple years alone. Had to bury one of his closest friends in Cayde, had to flee from his City after it was sieged by Ghaul, and with all the backscenes political turmoil we don't get to see going on, I'd surmise it's hard for anyone to keep clear minded. I too was unhappy with him doing nothing about Cayde's death, but I can at least see his reasoning. He's depressed as hell right now, and even the strongest of leaders have a breaking point. You could not be expected to represent people of your kind, protect and help govern the last city of humanity, and live with the fact that one of your best friends was killed without being really -blam!-ed up, mentally.

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              • The vanguard, like all guardians, are warriors first and foremost. They were not chosen because of their political skills.

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                • He a titan, what do you expect.

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                  • Will you ask Zavala if he can tell you, in zetajoules, the Almighty's expected destructive capacity? And will he tell you, "No Asher, I cannot, because I am a reckless fool!"

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                  • Zavala is only as bad as the lazy writing that drives him. Which means yes, he is really, [i]really[/i] bad.

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                  • I read this as “Zavala is garbage at hot politics.” 👀

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                  • We need to have Ronald Reagan resurrected as a guardian. He’ll straighten everything out

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                    • As a Titan Main I just wanna throw him right into the War on Mars, the way he did nothing about Cayde’s death was like “Nah fam me walls more important than that Unicorn man” made me go BOIII you listen here Trump Wannabe

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                      • Zavala just seems like he's just lost the fight in him. He's so passive these days, you would think he was not the Vanguard Leader at all.

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                      • "I see an abandoned and ruined city, and no Traveler in the sky. The war is elsewhere. Let us find it."

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                        • Blah Blah Blah He's a TITAN we THINK with OUR BRAWN

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                        • In the stolen intelligence lore book it is noted that they acknowledge they are not politicians and even considered the merits of disbanding the vanguard altogether.

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                        • The Vanguard was never meant to be running politics. They're warriors after all. They're only doing it cause the people are looking up to them

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                        • Yeah here be some spoilers I just feel if we split off into drifter and vanguard/praxic order our standing vanguard is gonna have to pick sides. Still haven’t done the vanguard storyline, but what I know from it is it’s deceiving and Aunor is a bitch. I wouldn’t side with someone who falsely accuses me of killing a friend and is following every little conspiracy hoping to find something(if anything they will be the reason the vanguard falls apart). Vanguard is working with shin and the drifter so it kind of shifts the playing field where everyone we know and care about is on the same side and Aunor is just a fear monger. If we actually do split into factions I am curious to see which of the existing groups side with who. I imagine Drifter is gonna have more home boys than just Dead orbit. This is just me talking about a few things I’m thinking about

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