You obviously cant read, as your protest perfectly perpetuates my points. How would somebody like you provide maximum feedback for bungie to use? They are going to be shipping out these mo'fos all expense paid n shit, so they'd want to get their moneys worth. Who can provide feedback on every single activity? By your own admission, not you. But Datto? He literally makes guides for noobs like you for every endgame activity, and his viewpoints are well articulated, and well received by the community. Inviting someone like him is a no brainer. You, on the other hand, or random bob blueberry, on the otherhand, will likely be a waste of time. No, that doesnt mean that yours or bobs feedback is NOT credible or valid or worthwile, but when your trying to get the best and can only listen to a select few, certain feedback will get favored, while others will be forsaken.

[quote] You, on the other hand, or random bob blueberry, on the otherhand, will likely be a waste of time.[/quote] This statement is unbelievably arrogant. I have invested well over 1000 hours into both games of Destiny (so have many other non-streamers). I may not be able to give feedback on certain raids, but literally every other aspect of the game I have invested time in. (Especially gambit and PVP). Not every streamer plays every aspect on the game... at the very least to give constructive feedback on it. The reason why Bungie brings them in (by DMG04's own admission) is that they "represent" the community. IMO that is inaccurate. What a streamer looks for, what a player like me looks for, and what a casual looks for in a game is very different. It is important to balance those out, as the streaming population isn't going to keep your game alive. For example, streamers benefit more from long drawn out grinds as it will give them more to do (as they literally do this for a job). However, if every aspect of the game was like this, you would lose all of your casual population (which is the majority) and would not be good for the game. Destiny thrives on a strong playerbase, and it is currently dying, even WITH the initial community summit, that was, you guessed it, ALL STREAMERS.

And what was that summit about? Forsaken, the best recieved expansion of D2 by casuals and streamers alike. Streamers also complain about grind as well, as appropriate. Many point out that certain drops are/were too scarce, such as EP and new exotics. They dont like getting screwed by RNG either, only they spend less time complaining about it, and more time doing something about it. Why do you think streamers' desires differ from yours or a casuals? All LOVE new content. All love unique and satisfying exotics. All like a balanced crucible. Theres much more overap than their isnt. ON AVERAGE streamers play/complete every single activity more than your average player. Yes, that statement is a loaded one, but still true and usefull. If bungie were to grab 5 random streamers v 5 random non-streamer players, then the streamers will have MUCH more average playtime and activity completion than the randoms. That is not arrogance, that is statistical fact. Streamers also have built-in audiences, so if the summit goes good, then the publicity will be optimal. They also have something to lose if they spill the beans too early, so once again they offer something to bungie that you or bob blueberry cant. Thats the point! Streamers not only offer the best feedback, on average, but they also have followings that offer assurances that the investments bungie makes g yields maximum results. You just want them to hear YOUR feedback, specifically. I get it. I likely got more hours/accomplishments than you, so i could beat you over the head with that and claim that MY feedback should be heard (which it should, just like yours or bob blueberry), but the reality is that you cant get everybodies feedback, much less act on it, and some peoples is just better than others for one reason or another. In this specific case, its the chosen streamers, for the many reasons ive provided.

[quote] You just want them to hear YOUR feedback, specifically. I get it. I likely got more hours/accomplishments than you, so i could beat you over the head with that and claim that MY feedback should be heard (which it should, just like yours or bob blueberry), but the reality is that you cant get everybodies feedback, much less act on it, and some peoples is just better than others for one reason or another. [/quote] Actually I don't want them to here mine specially. I want them to here feedback of players LIKE me. I could really care less what a streamer wants for this game. They are the MINORITY of the player base. If you want the minority of the playerbase to shape the gaming experience of the majority, you would be in the minority. [quote] Thats the point! Streamers not only offer the best feedback, on average, but they also have followings that offer assurances that the investments bungie makes g yields maximum results. [/quote] That an opinion. It just simply isn't true. Most streamers are disconnected from the typically player. There experiences are not representative of the rest of the community. Take competitive PVP for example. Find 3 other competent players to grind glory with is not hard for them. A player like me on the other hand, can sit on LFG for hours and literally not find anyone else. Are they going to make suggestions to improve the competitive experience for the solo player? Of course not. On the other hand, they just complain about long que times once they hit high glory and dislike the changes Bungie made to the matchmaking that better attempts to match you appropriately. [quote] And what was that summit about? Forsaken, the best recieved expansion of D2 by casuals and streamers alike. [/quote] Nope. Forsaken sales is partially why Bungie is no longer part of Activision. You may think that is a good thing (as do I) put my point remains. Also, the 3 months that Forsaken survived is irrelevant if the expansion pass layout is a failure (which it is). Bungie has specifically said it was designed with the HARDCORE in mind, and look at the playerbase now...

Again, your arguing as if streamers arent players, calling them minorities as if they dont matter. Your also completely ignorring their audiences too, whos very following undermines many of your points. Streamers bring in other players too, which again is another major reason bungie is going with them. So streamers (and youtubers) like Datto and Mr Fruit having MILLIONS of viewrs/subs is just my opinion? You also act like those complaints are streamer exclusive, when you can find those very same gripes echoed by plenty of non-streamers here. Forsaken SALES were dissapointing for Activision, but was well recieved critically. Its success is independant of the season pass because that is additive, and not mandatory, as well as being seperate expansions entirely. Even despite that, the pass is not complete yet, so saying its good or bad right now is premature. Besides being Gambit centered, so if you didnt like gambit than your likely not going to enjoy this expansion, its still being recieved pretty well; thorn quest had multiple avenues for progression with no regression steps, invitations of the nine is hype, new gambit tweaks are appreciated. Reckoning is depending on the modifiers lol, but still not bad, as banner drop lets you go in topped off, and event repeat lets you grind with ease. Again, so far the worst part about latest expansion is if you dont like gambit, but besides that its doing alright alright alright.

Streamers and non streamers sometimes share opinions. Destiny is losing players everyday. That is a fact. Enhancement cores in infusion is the result of streamer feedback that the entire community hates I guess if you want streamers dictating the state of this game you and me will just never agree.

If you can show me the clip where a streamer has expressed the desire for cores to be a price, ill take back everything i've said and lick your boots, but until then, dont try to pass off BS as fact.

Result of streamer feedback is what I said. Gothalian told bungie that infusion should be a meaningful choice. 6 months later and we have cores in infusion. Infusion is not a meaningful choice, it's strictly for leveling. Hence the problem.

you also said "streamers dictate the state of the game". you also didnt provide the clip, NOR did you even provide the parameters i set: did he say CORES to be a price? the problem is that y'all are terrible at resource management. new system is in place, just using it for a bit shows the problem AND the solution in one go, but you REFUSE to adapt and just complain that your bad at it. new system DOES make infusion a meaningful choice, but you just dont want it to be, hence the problem. but thats not the issue being discussed here, keep it on-topic: streamers are players too, so any argument that you make forsaking them is also an argument made for ignoring any player as well. however, when determining who should be invited to a focus group/publicity event, then the choice is obvious.

[quote] you also said "streamers dictate the state of the game". [/quote] You obviously aren't reading my posts. I said if YOU want streamers dictating the state of this game you and me are never going to agree. [quote] new system DOES make infusion a meaningful choice, but you just dont want it to be, hence the problem [/quote] Again you are not reading. I never said infusion isn't CURRENTLY a meaningful choice. I said it shouldn't be, as does the majority of the community. [quote] you also didnt provide the clip, NOR did you even provide the parameters i set: did he say CORES to be a price? [/quote] No he did not say anything like that. Again, you are not reading my posts. He said infusion should be meaningful/impact. The community DISAGREES with this sentiment. Players want to bring up ALL there gear expansion to expansion, hence the hatred towards using a rare material. Infusion has historically been costly, but never to the point were it is impact. My source is Saynotorage's stream. I don't have a clip on it. If you want to assume I am lying that is fine. [quote] but thats not the issue being discussed here, keep it on-topic: streamers are players too [/quote] Yes they are. But they are also a very different kind of player. Most gamers don't get paid to play and most gamers don't have the time to invest into a game like streamers do. If you don't see the disconnect between that and the other 99% of the Destiny population I just don't know what to tell you. Make a post on Reddit and the Bungie forums about how streamer feedback is more valuable and see how that goes.

opinions, popular or otherwise, do not equate to facts, so i wont bother making posts about streamer feedback, ESPECIALLY since you've failed to discredit a single point ive made about it. you keep SAYING that i am not reading your points properly, but when i scroll up to see the original in its entire context, its NOTHING like what you "meant" it to say, ex: YOU Result of streamer feedback is what I said. Gothalian told bungie that infusion should be a meaningful choice. 6 months later and we have cores in infusion. Infusion is not a meaningful choice, it's strictly for leveling. Hence the problem. ME "new system DOES make infusion a meaningful choice, but you just dont want it to be, hence the problem" YOU Again you are not reading. I never said infusion isn't CURRENTLY a meaningful choice. I said it shouldn't be, as does the majority of the community. you LITERALLY ONLY say that "Infusion is not a meaningful choice, it's strictly for leveling", nowhere near or around that do you imply that tense is significant, nor that you THINK that it should not be, only that it is NOT, as-if to say that it factually is not, which is different from saying that its your opinion that it should not be. thats YOU trying to ret-con your responses to try to mitigate the damage, not me misinterpreting them. also, your still trying to go off-topic. how about you try an argument that does NOT rely on appeal to popularity, ESPECIALLY when the ones your trying to leverage it against actually have that on their side.

You absolutely right dude. If the majority of the community wants something bungie should dig their heels in. That worked well for vanilla D2. Also, I never said how the cores affected me. You keep assuming that I cant adapt. To be honest it doesn't affect me at all because I am a pvp first player and light doesn't matter. From a historical context infusion has never been an impactful choice. It shouldn't be. You lose nothing by removing cores from infusion. NOTHING. Players hate it, and it ruins the game for players just starting. It provides nothing of value and only turns players off from playing the game. In the end it doesn't matter. We are never going to agree. You keep thinking streamer feedback is more valuable that any other dedicated player. To be honest. I dont care if you do nor does it matter. Bungie isn't changing how they do this.

Earlier you accused me of not actually reading your posts, but it is YOU who is failing to read and comprehend; all feedback is valuable, but some is more-so than others, and in more ways too. Its not so much that we cant agree, but rather you just wanted affirmation, not a different perspective.