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11/27/2018 12:41:28 AM
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Warframe is an MMO, very different from an RPG. Unless the definition changed since I played D&D, RPG stands for [b]Role Playing Game.[/b]. Role playing games are, by their nature, NONLINEAR. Warframe is linear, just with better customization.
Simply put, many RPG's are MMO's but not all MMO's are RPG's.
[quote]Witcher 3 is a strory-driven, open-world RPG.
An almost perfect example of one.[/quote]
You actually just proved MY point that Destiny is in no way an RPG. Just because you can lightly customize a character does NOT make it an RPG. Every BF title, Titanfall 2, and even Halo allowed you to somewhat customize a character so would you consider them an RPG?
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You have your game genres badly confused.
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Editado por SpectreMT: 11/27/2018 12:58:34 AMNo, I believe that you are confusing the difference between an MMO and an RPG. I will give you that Destiny is an MMO, although a very light one. RPG's are "story driven" by their very nature since it is the ROLE you play in the story that drives it. The Destiny "storyline" is just as linear as Halo's was. You can call me a purist but any game where EVERY player ends up at the EXACT same place is NOT an RPG. Just because a game has some degree of customization does NOT make it an RPG. I respect some of your criticism of the current Destiny state but to even remotely call the Destiny franchise an RPG is just incorrect as there is no "role playing" aspect to this game. EDIT: Actually, I recall ONE RPG element in this game though it had no impact on the story itself. Recall the mission where it ended between the Fallen Kell and the Vex (I believe). You could kill the Kell, or not and the ending cutscene was different for each encounter. That was an RPG element though it had no bearing on the course of the story so I would not consider Destiny an RPG because of that.
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No. You are doing that. I’ve been gaming for 40 years, so I’ve not only played all of these different kinds of game. I was an adult gamer when most of them began and developed. Warframe is not an MMO. It is a very conventional loot-based RPG with limited co-op multiplayer for most of its life. It wasn’t until [i]Fields of Eidolon[/i] that it started to try to add any massively-multiplayer and persistent world elements. Elder Scrolls Online is an MMO. Planetside 2 is an MMO-FPS hybrid. Black Desert Online. EVE Online. World of Warcraft. These are all MMOs. The problem is that you are trying to pigeon hole all RPG video games into being these heavily story driven experiences...and they just ARENT. Having major narratives play a part in video games is a recent development. Any game where you adopt the role of a character and go through the mechanics of leveling up and customizing that character as you move through a serried of experiences is a form of RPG. Now different GENRES of RPG emphasize different aspects of that experience. MMOs emphasize vast multiplayer worlds and complex storytelling at the expense of crude game play. Loot-based game’s emphasize complex, action-based gameplay and rewards at the expense of complex storytelling. Single player, story-driven RPGs, and open world-RPG try to blend both the action and the storytelling at the expense of multiplayer. This is an extremely broad category of game with lots of genres and sub-genres. Destiny is almost exactly what it needs to be. It is not a bad copy of anything else. It is supposed to be a action-based blending of a loot-based RPG and a FPS (“looter-shooter) combined with some light aspects of MMO-style games in terms of a persistent online game world and both structured and emergent co-op play.
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[quote]Any game where you adopt the role of a character and go through the mechanics of leveling up and customizing that character as you move through a serried of experiences is a form of RPG. [/quote] So, what you are saying is that nearly EVERY game out there is an RPG? Really? Nearly every game has you "adopt the role of a character and go through the mechanics of leveling up and customizing that character as you move through a serried of experiences". Halo did that, so is Halo an RPG? Titanfall did that, is it an RPG? Hell, Battlefield does that.... is it an RPG? Sorry, just using your own definition of an RPG.
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No I didn’t say that. I said that this is a much bigger, broader and more varied genre of game than you’re willing to accept. It covers games as varied as Diablo 3 to Borderlands 2 to Assassin’s Creed: Origins to Dark Souls to Mass Effect to World of Warcraft.
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I think I see the problem here. The industry has bastardized the concept of an RPG to encompass nearly every game out there. I do not suscribe to that thinking, though my business is not selling video games. I noticed that you did not argue with my assessment that an RPG IS a role playing game as evidenced by the examples you just gave. Can you honestly say that the Destiny franchise is similar to the games you just listed? Be honest as I have been honest with you. Mass Effect: Andromeda was an abject failure for a ME game but it was head and shoulders more of an RPG that the Destiny franchise ever was. Just because the industry has decided to rewrite what defines an RPG does not make games an RPG. At least admit that calling Destiny an RPG is more of a marketing tactic than a true statement?
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Again you’ve got that backwards. Your notions of what an RPG are to rigid and too narrow to reflect the reality.
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Sorry, but unless RPG no longer means Role Playing Game I will have to disagree. I fail to see what "role" you play as a Destiny player since no matter what you do you still end up in the EXACT same place as every other Destiny player. You can suscribe to any marketing tactic you desire. The fact remains that there are actually real RPG video games out there and Destiny is NOT one of those games. For someone that has been around for so long I find it disturbing that you could be persuaded by marginal marketing to change the concept of what an RPG really is. Perhaps that is part of the problem with the video game industry today. I assumed it was merely a desire to extend profits but seeing someone with your self acknowledged experience falling for blatant marketing ploys I wonder if it is just the "younger video gamers" (as you put it) that are susceptible. As I said, I respect your opinions but on this we will agree to disagree.
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The word means what it’s says. The problem is that you are trying to impose your [i]personal[/i] definition of what that word means on the rest of the world. And we aren’t interested. What you are talking about is just one aspect of RPG gameplay. The reality is much broader and you are simply being rigid and closed-minded about this.
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[quote]The problem is that you are trying to impose your personal definition of what that word means on the rest of the world.[/quote] I'm sorry, I thought we were having a conversation on a difference of opinion. [quote]And we aren’t interested.[/quote] THANK YOU. That is what I was waiting for. It was engaging to debate with you but I was waiting for you to reveal your true nature. You just did. Seriously, do you have a mouse in your pocket? Perhaps an undiagnosed mental issue? Who is this "we" you are referring to? Do you feel it necessary to speak for anyone besides yourself? We were having a civil difference of opinion, yet you decided to thrust your misguided moral superiority by using the term "we". It must be great to by you. Has your supposed "baseball career" made you so arrogant that you feel the need to speak for everyone? My definition of Role Playing Game is too "rigid" but YOU speak for the masses. Wow. Thank you, you have proven what I already surmised and now you have exposed yourself to everyone on the forum. How morally superior you must feel.
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I’m always interested in a debate. I’m never interested in listening to someone telling me that Reality Is Whatever I Say It Is. Especially when they don’t know what they are talking about and refuse to learn. It’s not my job to broaden your horizons or open your closed mind.
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So what you are really saying is: [quote]I’m always interested in a debate.[/quote] ... as long as you agree with me. [quote] I’m never interested in listening to someone telling me that Reality Is Whatever I Say It Is. [/quote] Never said anything of the sort, your ego made that perception in your mind. [quote]Especially when they don’t know what they are talking about and refuse to learn.[/quote] Wow! Ego 2.0. I guess it is true that sports stars have inflated egos. [quote]It’s not my job to broaden your horizons or open your closed mind.[/quote] Oh, come on really? With your ego? You already took it upon yourself to speak on the behalf of others. You really do not believe that it is your moral imperative to "broaden my horizons or open my closed mind"? Feel free to mute me at any time because that is what people like you do when thay cannot handle an opinion that does not conform to their own inflated sense of self worth. We have both agreed and disagreed on many points in the past but this is the first time we have disagreed on a principle and THIS is how you react.
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I’m saying that I know what I’m talking about and you don’t. Period. And what you lack in knowledge and gaming experience you are trying to make up for in dogmatic stubbornness.
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[quote]I’m saying that I know what I’m talking about and you don’t. Period.[/quote] Yea, this definitely doesn't have anything to do with your inflated ego...
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No, It doesn’t. It has everything to do with my 40 years of gaming experience and watching all of these game genres start and develop as an adult. So I know for a fact that my counterpart is incorrect and trying to make the industry conform to his personal preferences. Since I played the original Diablo 20 years ago, and know that it was considered an action-RPG and a model that most loot-based games follow to this day. Sometimes the other person simply knows more than you do....and if you can’t admit it, you never learn anything new.
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[quote] Sometimes the other person simply knows more than you do....and if you can’t admit it, you never learn anything new.[/quote] I'd say take your own advice, but you'll just ignore me, as you're never wrong...At least according to you. On a side note, I don't actually have a dog in this fight, as trying to put a specific label on this game is a fools errand. I just find your particular brand of arrogance amusing. The "I'm older than you and know more than you so I'm always right." kind of arrogance.
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Sorry you feel that way. [quote]don't actually have a dog in this fight, as trying to put a specific label on this game is a fools errand. I just find your particular brand of arrogance amusing. The "I'm older than you and know more than you so I'm always right." kind of arrogance.[/quote] Actually it isn't. Its like saying that you can't say that a particular song or a particular band belongs to a particular genre of music. Refusing to call the music of John Coltrane "jazz" doesn't make one erudite....it makes one sound like someone who genuinely doesn't know what they're talking about. Likewise, calling it "jazz" doesn't make one "arrogant". It demonstrates that one is knowledgeable about the artist and his musical heritage. I'm not correct simply because I'm "older". I'm correct because I've had DIRECT experience with what we are talking about and DIRECT, PERSONAL experience with the evolution of these game genres. Oh...and for the record....I'm often wrong. But I'm seldom wrong in THIS environment because I make the effort to know what I'm talking about BEFORE I open my mouth. ...and I'm far more concerned with WHAT is right than WHO is right. Might want to try that sometime.
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Your arrogance never ceases to amuse.
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Editado por TheArtist: 11/27/2018 9:48:15 PMStill more insults. But hey, gotta go with what you've got, because you've got nothing else to work with. Trust me, the amusement goes both ways. Because the facts are on firmly on my side here. https://www.allmusic.com/artist/john-coltrane-mn0000175553/discography [i] John Coltrane Stream or buy on: Active 1940s - 1960s Born September 23, 1926 in Hamlet, NC Died July 17, 1967 in Huntington, NY Genre [b]Jazz[/b] Styles [b]Avant-Garde Jazz[/b] [b]Free Jazz[/b] [b]Hard Bop[/b] Modal Music [b]Post-Bop[/b] Jazz Instrument [b]Saxophone Jazz[/b] Film Score Also Known As John William Coltrane Trane Member Of John Coltrane Quartet John Coltrane Quintet Miles Davis Quintet Elmo Hope Sextet Submit Corrections Related Blog Posts Actor and Musician Adam Goldberg on Loving Loops and the Merits of Musical Monotony The Shape of Jazz to Come: Remembering Ornette Coleman On John Coltrane's birthday, get a new take on A Love Supreme AllMusic Loves Blue Note Records John Coltrane Biography by William Ruhlmann [b]The most influential jazz musician of the late 20th century, one of the greatest saxophonists of all time, and the pioneer of jazz without limits. [/b] [/i] I guess arrogance runs rampant, eh??
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[quote]Still more insults. [/quote] Not an insult, just an observation. BTW, your opinion doesn't equate to facts, no matter how much you want it to be true. Once again showing your arrogance. Please continue though, as it is pretty funny.
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Editado por TheArtist: 11/27/2018 9:58:15 PMIts an insult. I never said my opinion was "fact". I said that I knew what I was talking about...and the three of you DON"T. You see one of the more malicious ILLUSIONS that the internet creates is that ALL OPINIONS ARE CREATED EQUAL. But the fact is that they are not....and the truth is not a DEMOCRACY. Or a legislative bill that gets VOTED on. Some opinions are informed. Other opinions are.....less so. [b]My opinion happens to be the only INFORMED opinion here. [/b] Because my opinion is informed by fact...and decades of experience. Like the OPINION you go to get from a doctor when you're sick. Like the OPINION in the John Coltrane discography that I linked to in my previous post. Every INFORMED opinion would agree with that characterization of Trane and his body of JAZZ tenor and soprano saxophone music. Your plumber could offer you an opinion as to what's wrong with you when you're feeling ill, and what to do about it....but choose to follow it at your own risk.
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Meh, I can't be bothered with you now, as the super depressing Norwegian crime drama my wife was was watching is over. I couldn't be bothered reading your nonsense...sorry, kinda. Continue wasting your time if you so desire, as you love the metaphorical sound of your own voice. Maybe I'll take time out to chuckle at you later.
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Bye bye. Do whatever you wish. Since we've now entered the "Declare Victory and Leave" portion of this interaction.
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You are just making up sub genres. Destiny 2 is an Action game. Although you can insist that the game includes “RPG Elements”, which it does superficially, this game falls within the Action game genre. The shallow RPG elements are all specifically curated and locked to standard items and classes in order to protect the integrity of the Action gameplay. This is not an RPG based game, it is a shooter which falls under the Action game genre.
