I'm all good with pinnacle weapons, if they are niche but cool. I have lunas. It literally outperforms every gun. Faster ttk. (But it requires precision).... your point? Every gun requires precision, and for doing the same thing with this as any other, it demolishes. I wouldnt mind if this gun was exotic, but it isnt which opens your exotic slot for more cheesy shenanigans. This isnt a meta because of ease of use or a gun having a slight perk advantage over another, it's a forced meta where one/ two guns are literally better than every other gun. The only things that truly compete agree pulse rifles because of their insane flinch and range. I believe pinnacle weapons should be trophies like D1 trials. Those weapons become part of the meta because they could hold their own in certain ranges but werent particularly OP compared to other weapons. They were pinnacle weapons, decent in the meta, but never dominating the meta and becoming broken.

Sol what!?

Blah blah blah

Not true at all. AoS, trust, Duke and other hc's can and do compete with Lunas and NFs, but you just havent tested it out enough to know that other guns are still optimal and viable to use at various ranges yet.

Ace of Spades beats it in range so if you fought at longer distances against a guy with luna, you should win (especially with memento mori buff and high cal rounds causing flinch)

You supposedly don't have enough time to try to get Luna's but you do have enough time to play 35 Quickplay matches in one day. Mmmmm hmmmmm...

Your ace of spades will not get beaten by Luna with 3 headshots. Not from range. Ace will outrange it every time. At range ace has advantage, up close Luna will have advantage.

its hardly unfair, you did not put the time into destiny like your opponent did, they play more, they earned lunas (unless they got a carry, which definetly should be banned). Average players can still get redrixs broadsword, which is still a very solid weapon.

The whole new K/D thing is whack.. kills getting stolen everywhere.. Lately my K/D has also been going down because I like to use auto rifles and other thing than Trust and Ace of Spades. My K/D in D1 was also 1,6 or something like that. Regardless of K/D, I feel I am neither good nor bad at this game.

<I am a decent PVP player with a k/d of 1.75 and I play this game mainly for PvP. Not good, not bad, just decent - Much better than Me on a Good Day, with those skills I am most definitely certain if you commit time to it, you can get Luna's howl.> I'm preparing myself to give it a try.. do you know if it is still obtainable when the next season starts? <Fact of the matter is, unfortunately for me, I don't have the time to grind for Luna's howl (work, girlfriend etc.) - Most of us, in the Real world - has that, trust me. i am in SME in PM, so yeah. Yet, there are people with Full time Jobs, wifes, kids etc, who has obtained this Weapon.> Then I commend you for the time you put in the game to get the gun. <There simply is nothing to counter it and that's why it is unfair - anything with more range, that can stagger an opponent in my opinion, will outshoot a Luna. Range puts it at its disadvantage, if you don't hit crits, you don't proc the perk, its just a slightly more accurate version of the Trust.> Range yes, I ried my go Figure for some time to encounter it, but that means you have to stay back more. If you think about it, it also is not a way to counter Luna's Howl, but to prevent Luna's Howl from engaging you, simply because you are out of range. But you are right, distance is the solution to not getting killed by Luna's Howl. <I'm not crying or something, I still hold my own in crucible, so please don't start with arguments like "crybaby" - I am not twelve, please, we are all adults here, i give you respect because you have a sensible argument.> Thank you, other Luna's Howl users -I feel- are less respectfull when I bring up my opinion. Although I should not hold that against every Luna's Howl user. <Fact is, the Luna's howl is Designed to be the weapon it is, as a Stepping stone to obtain Not Forgotten. there will be a barrage of Nerf posts from Luna players who cant get Not forgotten, requested the not forgotten to be nerfed. i am no PVP expert, you can go check my stats, i don't care, but i think the most times people get killed by a Luna's is if they face a skilled player heads on. Having the Luna's howl doesn't make you better at the game. in the Right hands, YES. but people know this, yet they still decide to challenge or choose their Fights / Lanes poorly. there are a lot of great guns in this game. i get killed by the Bygones more often than anything else.> Of course a great part of getting killed is your own skill, or lack of skill and poor decision making. That applies to everyone and I'm am really not arguing that I would destroy everybody if I had a Luna's Howl. But in my experience, we cannot deny on the other hand, that a lot of Luna's Howl players win a lot of engagements, only because they are using Luna's Howl. I agree with you about Bygones. Get killed by that a lot too. But I feel Bygones is more easy to obtain, and actually easier to counter. But that's my opinion. The difference between Luna's Howl and Not forgotten is range. I feel that people who get Not Forgotten, actually deserve it. The No Forgotten won't also bring unbalance, because there will not be a lot of them in crucible. Luna's Howl is difficult to get because of the grind but nonetheless obtainable by grinding a lot and it is "investing" crucible a lot more. I have nothing against Luna's Howl users to be clear, if I had one I would use it all the time, understandably, but I just feel there should be some way for me as a non Luna's Howl player, to have a decent chance to win an encounter against it.

[i]<Let's put it another way. Since you make (presumably) enough money to afford a console, and another person can't, well, we should just take your console away and give your money to that other person.>[/i] Uhm no.. that's entirely NOT what I'm saying.. Your analogy doesn't make sense at all. I'm saying that we should find a means to let someone else also play D2 on maybe a cheaper console. [i]<It's all the same argument. That's my point.>[/i] It really is not the same argument.. I'm not saying that the people who use it, do not deserve it. I'm saying other people at least deserve a fighting chance with a weapon that comes closer to Luna's Howl and that is easier to obtain. As we stand, Not Forgotten is a 10/10, Luna's Howl is a 9.5/10 and the next best thing is an 8/10.

Yeah sorry not trying to be mean, but seriously. the logic behind some of these arguments are just Mindf*ckingly stupid.