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11/10/2018 6:46:08 AM
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That's how RNG-based-loot games work.
Bungie respect our time just fine - they gave us a game most [dedicated] players spend several hundred (or a few thousand) hours in, which is more than most games offer, and have devised a system that makes each login or play session unique. It's the players who "expect" certain rewards, or think they "deserve" certain weapons/armor based on how many hours they've played, who don't understand how the system works.
I've been gaming since the text-based days of the '80s, and have been through every evolution of video gaming up to now - we used to be happy with games as they were, our of the box, but at some point gamers started thinking that wasn't "enough." I knew early on the online feedback-driven era would create more problems than it solved, and Destiny 2 (and the new CoD, Final Fantasy, GTA, and any other DLC-driven online franchise-based or online-new-IP game you can think of) is the proof - D1Y1 was all about luck, we got three years of increasingly-generous handouts, anyone playing long-term thought the loot system was "broken" due to the ridiculously-fast rate players could acquire high-end gear, and now we're back to the way Destiny should have been all along...and a lot of players are still complaining.
Having been through the static-world days of the old Nintendo games, the semi-"random" days of the early Playstation-era Final Fantasy games, the original "online" console days, and the now seeing the new generation of online gaming, my honest impression is that gaming has gotten too far ahead of itself, and we had it "right" in the '90s with immersive open worlds that came on discs and couldn't be changed after the fact - no matter what any online game does, it pisses off half the player base, and that's never going to change. (That's why I still prefer mostly-offline RPGs like Fallout, Elder Scrolls, and Horizon - my guns never change, always do the same damage, and I can always find them in the same place.)
Ultimately, a game like Destiny isn't meant to be "completed" - it's meant to be played, indefinitely, until a player loses interest. For some, that's after finishing the Campaign; for some, it's after running the Raid and hitting Max Light; for some, it's after doing every optional objective; for some, it's once they get that "god-roll" weapon they've always wanted; and for some, they just keep playing because it's all the only game they know and take it too seriously.
Destiny is a game that's desperately trying to keep everyone happy - you, me, veteran players, new players, hardcore Raiders, PvP mains, the new kid who can't land a headshot and the guy who just Sleeper-spammed your entire team in Gambit...so when the activity ends, which one deserves the drop?
I have reasonably bad luck too, but I don't play this game for Exotics or "god-rolls" - I play because it's fun, and sometimes I get cool stuff as a reward. If I don't, it doesn't make playing any less fun, and if I do, nine times out of ten I use it for a day or two and throw it in the Vault because it's not all that great anyway.
For most players, Destiny is game designed to be consumed in chunks - play the new DLC, run the Campaign, grind a bit if you want, and move on. If you have any life outside of Destiny, 100% completion isn't a realistic goal...play until you get tired of it, and move on. That's how video games work. :)
English
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Editado por Corrick II: 11/10/2018 8:46:02 PM“Each login session is unique”. Can you explain this? Because each of my login sessions are exactly the same. I log in, wait a while to load, start doing the exact same things I do every time (the only things that are available, ever), get dupes, delete dupes, log out. Most of the time my experience is much like OP’s, although I will always admit I love the core mechanics of running, jumping and shooting. Part of the “fun” you think is more important than the reward is... well, the reward, actually. Each day I play with the exact same weapons because that’s all I ever get, the exact same weapons. Sometimes the rewards are what makes it fun to play, to try out the new weapons and armor, and when RNG is what it is and gives you nothing, it’s tough to play hours on end only to log out with little to show for it.
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Then Destiny might not be the game for you. I play a lot of games, and every single game can be defined as "doing the exact same things every time" - that's literally the definition of gaming. Whether it's driving around the same circles with the same cars in Forza, or shooting the same enemies with the same guns in Halo or Fallout, or stabbing/slashing the same enemies with the same weapons in Skyrim, or flying the same ship and building bases with the same parts in No Man's Sky, or shooting the same machines with the same bow in Horizon, or walking to the right and jumping on the same platforms in Mario/Journey/Thomas Was Alone, every single video game is nothing more than a small number of confined actions repeated indefinitely. It's entertainment, a simple distraction, and any open-world game without a hard "end" point is always going to run into a repetition "problem"...but what you choose to do while playing is as diverse or mundane as you want it to be. As a solo PvE player, I jump into Destiny, run the planetary Challenges and Daily activities (which, as the name implies, change daily), jump into some Strikes, pick random guns out of my Vault/inventory to use depending on the day's requirements, and go shoot stuff. (Destiny being a shooter, that seems to make the most sense.) If I can find ways to have fun in Destiny without touching end-game and mostly avoiding PvP and Gambit, I don't think players saying there's "nothing to do" is a fault of the game, but a lack of creativity among gamers. You'd probably hate RPGs - after you beat "the boss," you have to delete your save and start the entire game over! Or accept that you've "beat" the game, and move on to another. It strikes me as ridiculous that many players have over 1000 hours in Destiny, and somehow think the game "owes" them more - at that point, the game's over, and anyone still playing is doing it by choice (or addiction), but not because Destiny is actually a 1000-hour game.
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Editado por Corrick II: 11/10/2018 9:36:21 PMSo much text to half-answer the question. Ok, so... what I do is different, yes, but Bungie doesn’t have a system to randomize the activities enough to make them [i]feel[/i] different. That’s what I’m asking for. You can pontificate all you want and I imagine the view is great up there on that high horse, but it’s pretty obvious you’re not keen on understanding that when we complain, we’re actually asking for changes to make the game even better, not maintain the status quo.
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And I'm explaining that "the status quo" is what we got - Destiny isn't a perfect game (REALLY far from it), but it is what it is - if you're looking for "randomized" encounters (which your first post didn't make clear), that's not a mechanic in this game outside of playlists (which I assume isn't what you meant). As for answering your question, my entire third paragraph explained exactly how every play session is unique (for me) - different activities, different guns, swap up abilities, and do whatever the game throws at me that day. If that's not "different" enough for your tastes, fair enough, but that's what we've got. Good enough to kill time while watching Netflix, and reasonable to keep an average player busy for a few hours without being overly demanding. You're correct that I have no understanding of, nor desire to understand, the mentality that a game "owes" players anything other than what's on the disc/download - I've been gaming long enough that I accept games for what they are, and don't judge them by what they aren't. I buy a game, I play it, if I don't enjoy the experience or finish everything there is to do I find another and move on. I don't finish Fallout 4 and go to Bethesda's forums to tell them I want more Fallout 4, or that they're obligated to give me what I want or change how their game works, I either keep playing/start over or pick up another game instead. I feel like a lot of Destiny players get so invested in this game that they forget other games exist (this actually happens with most persistent online games - the Division and GTA forums are nearly identical to Destiny's, both in demands for change and complaints about core mechanics, usually by players with hundreds or thousands of hours played), or that Destiny doesn't have to be everything to everyone - it's already trying too hard to pull from too many different genres, and seems hell-bent on refusing to commit to being an FPS, or an RPG, or a looter-shooter, hanging out in the shallow end of each pool without going all-in on any of them.
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Editado por Corrick II: 11/10/2018 11:51:53 PMI think I understand the headspace you’re in when responding. Good to know where people are coming from, right? So... regarding entitlement... I don’t particularly think we as players are “owed” anything exactly. I myself have said it before that Bungie’s sole task was to make a game for us to play, and in that effort they have been most successful. If this had been a single player game, I would applaud them and move on. However... Bungie [i]also[/i] set out to make a perpetual, “10-year” experience that should keep players engaged daily. Yes, through various DLC’s and updates they’ve added new content, but fundamentally the game is based on repetition. You make a good point, many games are based on repetition, but as others have pointed out, Bungie has relied heavily, and I will stress [i]heavily[/i], on players repeating the same content with little to no variety in that content. Combine that with a system of random loot generation that at times defies probability and we have a situation that many players simply find unacceptable. You are satisfied. For that I’m happy, in as much as I am happy for another human being’s contentedness. I still see opportunity for Bungie to improve the most basic repeatable content by adding more randomness to it, in timing, location, variety and loot. There is something special about Destiny. We wouldn’t rant and rave nearly as much if it were just another game, and I play [i]many[/i] other games. Other games are released, I’ll play it, finish it, maybe play it again if I like it enough (RPG’s included), but I keep coming back to this game, something I’ve never, [i]ever[/i] done with any other game. This is where my passion comes from. To think Bungie’s job is done is honestly an act of capitulation. I won’t do it. I will expect Bungie to honor the commitment they made to players to create a daily experience that actually [i]is[/i] as varied and exciting as we all want it to be. As it is right now, it simply isn’t that. Not yet, anyway. Also, sorry about the whole “high horse” thing, it’s been a long day.
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Fair enough. I, too, would LIKE to see the game improve, and I think we probably have a similar vision of an "ideal" Destiny - but, having been down this road before, I don't EXPECT it. The 10-year plan went out the window when they released D1 years behind schedule, stumbled when D1Y3 decided to rehash half of D1Y1's content (Gjallarhorn, Icebreaker, and "refreshed" Raid gear), and died when they killed D1's world for the D2 reset and went seasonal - I do think Destiny will be a long-term franchise, but more meant to be consumed in quarterly chunks than a truly "unique experience every day for 10 years," and I adjusted my expectations accordingly (especially after I went solo, and had to get a little creative about finding things to do). I don't expect everyone to agree, but I think OP's opinion that Bungie/Destiny "don't respect our time" fails to put reality before wishful thinking, which almost always results in disappointment. You're right that there's something special about Destiny, and it's the game I always come back to, but as the game's gotten older my threshold has lowered - that's largely a symptom of the current generation of games in general. I feel many of the games currently on the market were better in their previous iterations - there's always some much-needed improvement, like ADS and uncapped leveling in Fallout 4, but it feels like the games themselves are becoming less unique/original and relying more and more on nostalgia and grind rather than creativity (this is why I've largely been against D1 Exotics coming back - they add nothing new, and they artificially inflate the already-too-full loot pool to add time alone). I'd much rather have a shorter but more fulfilling experience than a game that drags on longer than it should for no particular reason. I don't think of Destiny as a game to "beat," but a game I can keep coming back to and play for a few weeks without getting bored, because the thing that keeps bringing me back is the gameplay itself - if this were any other game, I'd have wrapped up and moved on ages ago, but my motivations in Destiny are entirely different. Hopefully you'll find a reason to keep playing, or discover a new way to spice up your experience - if you really want to mix things up, you can always throw your weapons, subclass builds, and activities into an Excel sheet, assign numbers to everything, and use a random number table to generate custom daily builds and "playlists" (if you're a true masochist, you can include items acquirable through Collections and put everything on a knockout list, or implement a rule that you have to equip any dropped weapon and use it until another drops).
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Respect. I’m deleting my Titan this weekend and starting a new one. We’ll see what happens.
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sigh bungie apologists make me want to puke.
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Yes, clearly anyone who chooses not to hate the game they're playing is a Bungie apologist, my post is in no way true for literally every persistent game out on the market, and explaining (and criticizing) the online gaming model is obviously a defense...of Bungie? All aboard the hate train, it's the fashionable place for people with nothing better to do and nothing insightful to say to hang out.
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Said everything, i have done about 46 Tree of probabilities nightfall hoping to get D.F.A just to drop nothing ( 130k points ) i dont have Forsaken btw
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[quote]That's how RNG-based-loot games work. [/quote] Yeah but it feels extra shitty in Destiny. Because all destiny has is rng. And its ingrained into literally everything
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Editado por SkunkApeDahSWAMP: 11/10/2018 3:24:45 PMAfter the first paragraph it became obvious you are pretty full of shit. Probably from shoving your head so far up Bungie’s ass. They didn’t make a game where every play session is unique. They made a game that is boring, repetitive, unrewarding and every activity is exactly the same as the last time you played it. Add to that the fact the drop rates for rewards are so frikken terrible there is absolutely no reason to play this crappy game anymore.
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Says someone who's spent over 800 hours playing Bungie's boring, repetitive, and unrewarding game - sounds like the game may not be the one with a problem, and I might not be the one who's full of it. Happy playing!
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You’re pretty stupid if you think that works against me. A lot of those hours were spent grinding the same boring content over and over again hoping to get the new exotic weapons that refused to drop for me, and I hated the experience. Posting about how many hours I played does nothing, but show how ignorant you are. I’m not playing this crappy game now, and really that speaks for itself. Go back to sucking up on Bungie and enjoying your crappy game. Hopefully your Luna’s howl, Reddit and malefesceance quests don’t suddenly vanish on you, like they did a lot of other people.
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Sounds like someone's a bit salty and burned out from playing too much - I tend not to do things that aren't fun for that long. :/ I'll keep enjoying Destiny, and leave you to your idle insults. Cheers.
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Reading comprehension is beyond you, huh?
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I agree with how this format is ruining gaming. They should stop changing things all the time. Unless totally necessary. Like bugs and glitches that affect gameplay. I think it's stupid to nerf weapons because some loser is sick of dying by it. Or changing the whole system til it's unrecognizable.
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The moment the first console with an internet jack was created, gaming changed forever. Prior to that moment, a finished game was printed on a disc and shipped to retailers - there was no such thing as "fixing" content after the fact, and at least for the RPGs I played I never ran into a single issue that caused problems. Online gaming brought a few problems with it - the ability to release unfinished games (most notable Minecraft, which is very different today than it was when it first released), and subsequently the mindset of "we'll fix it later" (e.g. GTA V, which was notoriously broken at launch, but is making more off microtransactions today than the game itself) which has overtaken the gaming world. I got into a very lengthy conversation with another Guardian last year about this, and one thing he brought up was that Destiny doesn't actually exist - as an online game, it can't be played offline, weapons and their performance constantly change, Exotic quests change, Y1 gear is no longer relevant, D1 Trials doesn't exist anymore, and we haven't actually bought a game...we've bought into a timed experience, subject to change, which will eventually run out (and also requires a separate console subscription to fully play). "Games as a service" really means "Give us your money and trust us" - and as long as players keep giving gaming companies their money, this will continue to be the future of gaming.
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Games were also infinitely less complex. Bugs scale with the size of the game. Super Mario 64 had dozens of bugs and glitches. And it was only 8 megabytes. The average game today is 5000 times larger than that. If extra work wasn't being done to prevent bugs and glitches 99% of games that exist would literally be unplayable. With the added benefit of being able to further improve the product post launch, I really don't understand the issue. You're following "game media" on whatever topic is trendy with no real knowledge of the situation
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[quote]The average game today is 5000 times larger than that. If extra work wasn't being done to prevent bugs and glitches 99% of games that exist would literally be unplayable.[/quote] Except Horizon Zero Dawn is a huge AAA game which launched with no issues, and was playable offline with no updates - being sloppy has become "normal," but isn't a valid excuse. While I get your point, 99% is on the high side - a lot of "online" games make changes for the sake of change, rather than improvement or fixes. (My specific experiences are with GTA Online, Sniper Elite 4, No Man's Sky, and Destiny/Destiny 2, all of which had early issues and have undergone significant changes since launch, as well as a number of offline single-player RPGs including Skyrim, Fallout 4, Horizon Zero Dawn, and Final Fantasy XV, which have remained largely unchanged.) "5000 times larger" doesn't mean "5000 times more work," and the development environments have changed as well - potential errors do scale with complexity, but there are plenty of games which don't have those problems and can be played offline with no need for updates. (And then there's Bethesda, who haven't figured out how to fix physics clipping issues or random quest failures over the entire lifetime of their games...) I don't follow "game media," but do have a broad gaming experience, and have first-hand watched a lot of AAA games change from finished products to "we'll fix it later," especially over the past few years. Prior to 2013/2014, most updates were primarily patches, fixes, and introduction of new content (DLCs), and very rarely changes to an existing environment (apart from some MMOs), but that's changed over the past 5 years, which is why "day 1 patches" exist and many gamers, myself included, have started waiting a couple of weeks to buy new games so they can work the kinks out, where that option didn't exist on physical media. In my personal experience "online" games suffer from this more than "offline" games, and hybrid games like Destiny or GTA Online fall into a weird middle ground - as a solo primarily-PvE player, it's strange knowing I can take a break and come back to a game where my gear might be gone, the world may be different, and some day the entire experience will no longer exist and there's no persistent offline version that can be played in the future (or if the internet goes down).
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Give us your money and trust us. Yes this is where I'm at right now. I don't trust them right now because they've just shown me that they're moving away from my type of game. But they have my money. Lol. Open world Co op shooter sounded fun. I came for that. Lock all worthwhile gear behind extensive time consuming walls or time gates. Bore.
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[quote]they've just shown me that they're moving away from my type of game.[/quote] I feel the same - it's refreshing to hear someone admit their tastes play a role, rather than thinking Bungie are unique in how they're handling Destiny. I got into Destiny for the open-world shooter pseudo-RPG element, both as a successor to Halo and as a game that seemed like a hybrid of Halo and Fallout. I used to roll with a clan, and enjoyed that experience; I went solo after King's Fall due to everyone else wanting to Raid 24/7, and enjoyed the solo side as well; but the game has shifted to focus more on PvP and this "looter-shooter" nonsense that increasingly drags out the grind, while almost entirely abandoning the open-world and RPG side (from forcing subclass builds, to reinforcing metas, to using "do X thing Y number of times" as a substitute for quests for gear). I accept the game for what it is, and got my money out of the franchise years ago, but I also accept it's drifting away from the kind of game I like playing...nothing wrong with moving on when that happens, or at least taking a break and playing something else for a while. I'll come back for the DLC Campaign/Story, but I don't care much about the long-term grind these days. I could spend a couple hundred hours hoping for a better Better Devils, or I could play all of Fallout 4 again in that same time (or pick up something new)...and a better Better Devils isn't going to be THAT much better.
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How is each play session unique?
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New bounties, Dailies, Weeklies, Heroics, Strike modifiers, etc. - it's not hard for me to eat up an evening just running the Tower and planetary bounties every day on each of my characters. (In fact, I often only have time for 1 or 2 of them, even with a few hours to play.) I run "curated" loadouts for each of my characters (Titan gets Warmind/Tangled Shore gear, Warlock gets CoO/Forge/Dreaming City gear, Hunter gets Gambit/Quest gear) - if it's a Void day, I get to use my Void weapons and subclasses for the day, or get to try out new weapons or abilities depending on the day's challenges. I try to switch up my weapons and subclasses each time, rather than always using the same guns and abilities, so I'm always learning and adapting to whatever I equipped rather than falling back on "meta" gear. (And yes, even Lost Sectors are sometimes a challenge - but I prefer that experience to playing the entire game with Sleeper and the IKELOS shotgun to crutch me through the game...it's much more fun to actually PLAY the content.)
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I don't use meta either, but you run out of new stuff very quickly. I run everything that you have mentioned almost every weekend. I mean, maybe if there were challenging things to do instead of difficult things to do. But you are right, play sessions do change, just in a minor way after a while
