Hammers also has travel time, more limited range, an arc you have to account for, and one of the shittiest neutral games in destiny. Not to mention, that's a singular tree. The other one is so much more difficult to use because it's none of what you mention. If you can hit a hammer across the map, you either are amazing at accounting for travel time and and hammer fall off, or your opponents are idiots. Golden gun is literally designed to have range and speed in mind. If they add power to it in crucible, it becomes THE panic super like you said. Golden gun is so much easier to aim than any other super as well as it is powerful. Unless you stopped playing in year 3, you would know why they took it out in Destiny 2. You would pop your super and one shot players instantly super or not so there wasn't actually a counter to it. Even if you didn't have armor, it doesn't matter because nobody smart enough would challenge a golden gun unless they felt like trading. And you act like 3 rounds isn't enough, that's half a team all's you have to do is pull the trigger to get rid of. Unlike in destiny 2, titans only had 1 mobile super and that was sunbreaker. Sunbreaker is only good because it is powerful. Have you ever used this super when it's laggy? Since it's time between attacks is so slow, you can get shotgunned twice before you get another one off. I'll make a basic rundown of the differences between the two: Sunbreaker: Moderate super armor High damage per super hit, top tree potentially can one shot. Has travel time Has an arc to the attack Can only throw a maximum of 6 hammers but that rarely happens except for in PvE. It's the only super in the game that will cut you off mid animation if you run out of super. Next to no neutral game. Golden gun: No armor No travel time High aim assist Hit scan Bullet magnetism Has the potential to one shot, if you can aim. Only has 3 shots on one tree that fires moderately slow. Has 6 shots on another that can kill supers faster than any other one in the game at longer ranges. A below average, but not bad neutral game. Average duration Golden gun is easy to use, but it's anything but weak. In Destiny 1, golden gun had to worry about mobile supers because it could only fire at a set rate and couldn't headshot other supers. When they added in the change, not even unstoppable fist of havoc could easily take down golden guns unless they completely got the jump on them. It has too much range and speed to be buffed to Destiny 1 levels. They made a super that becomes unchallengable if they buff it, but it stays as mediocre (for mediocre players) if they dont.

[quote]Sunbreaker: Moderate super armor (High super armor) High damage per super hit, top tree potentially can one shot. (Massive damage per super hit, top tree CAN one shot) Has travel time (Has a 1 second travel time) Has an arc to the attack (Has a LOW arc to the attack maximizing distace the higher you arc) Can only throw a maximum of 6 hammers but that rarely happens except for in PvE. (pretty much right except 6 is easy in pvp due to high base speed of Titans boost) It's the only super in the game that will cut you off mid animation if you run out of super. (You can still toss a hammer as your animation is out. I have done this on almost ever occasion with hammers Next to no neutral game (Amazing neutral game with healing on bottom tree, melting point on top tree(that doubles as a mobility tool) and absurdly high damage on the middle tree with burning maul)(All of the previous points require a skilled Titan to take advantage off)

Sunbreakers super armor matches that of dawnblade, thundercrash, and stormcaller, all of which have the lowest super armor in the game besides gunslinger which has none. A single nova warp blast can take out a sunbreaker just like it can thundercrash and just like it can dawnblade. It's not massive damage. In crucible, each hammer does as much as an arcstrider swing with the exception of the little extra explodey bits. It does around 320 so when the damage is reduced by the 46-60% super damage resistance other supers have, you are only getting between 150-167 damage per attack, and hammers is a slow super for time between attacks. In PvP, since a lot of supers have a bit more super armor than before, it's no where NEAR as consistently able to one shot other supers anymore. The arc can absolutely mess up your aiming and I've had times where I just BARELY aimed too low and it wouldn't hit my target. You don't count the health regen and melting point as valid neutral games in PvP, because most of the time you will rarely get ability kills except for with hammer strike itself. I forget the name of the perk you are talking about, but again, it relies on ability kills to activate, which is the entire reason sunbreaker is kind of meh in PvP for everything except for its super. And no, it's not easy getting off all 6 hammers. I've done multiple tests myself and the only actual way to get off all 6 hammers is if you, from start to finish, are constantly throwing hammers. You will average about 3-4 hammer throws unless you are already in the middle of battle when you activated it. Considering how sunbreaker is literally the only subclass I use and have almost exclusively used since it's release in Destiny 1, I think I can consider myself fairly experienced, as well as skilled with this subclass. It's my favorite super in the game, I should understand how it works.

[quote]I think I can consider myself fairly experienced, as well as skilled with this subclass.[/quote] [quote]The arc can absolutely mess up your aiming and I've had times where I just BARELY aimed too low and it wouldn't hit my target.[/quote] Hmmm play it consistently yet doesn't understand the basic arc of the hammer throw. That aside time played means you use it a lot. It doesn't mean you fully understand the subclass. I will do a few tests of my own in regards to super v super and Titan neutral games. I will get back to this post after.

Why are you talking about d1? It’s irrelevant. Titan hammers have travel time while Goldie is OHK, max range, max aim assist and big hitbox. No buffs to hunters needed and if you need it badly you’re bad.