No one payed my way in Warframe. I farmed to get what I want like a lot of people. You clearly haven't played Warframe if you think other people will "pay your way". People will help you farm, but the vast majority of people, unless they are the nicest people in the whole game will not buy you anything. They'll help farm, but you still have to pull your own weight.

You misunderstood what the guy said. Basically those updates and dlc are funded by what the playerbase spend on microtransactions so although what is being added is free someone has paid for that content at some point down the line.

When DE makes a new prime, I still have to farm to get it. That is hardly someone buying my lunch. I still have to work for it. I get that DE can only make the free content because people buy stuff, but they aren't buying ME stuff. "I'm still buying my own lunch" so to speak.

You still have to work to get it (or buy Access) what the guy is saying is that someone else funded the development of said prime not that they are physically buying it for you.

Yes they did. You clearly don't understand how FTP games work. They work by spreading the cost of the game out over the entire player base, rather than demanding it from every single player. So they place the barrier to entry low (free)...and then look to recapture the cost of play in terms of MTX...after players get invested in the game. That gets them a larger player base....and they make their money by overcharging you for MTX...and getting a smaller number of people to spend large amounts of money. Warframe actually has a VERY aggressive MTX scheme. The game is designed to be extremely grindy and packed with artificial pain-points designed to FRUSTRATE the gamer who has limited time....but a lot a money....to spend. It creates those pain points...and then "offers" to "relieve" them in exchange for a small amount of money. Over...and over...and over again. Which is a very EFFICIENT way of extracting money from adult gamers. [i] Do you really want to wait 12 hours to play with that cool new weapon you've just grinded two weeks to get the materials for while we "build" it? For $3, we can rush it and you can play with it now!![/i] [i]Do you really want to wait the 72 hours it will take to "incubate" your new pet? For $5, you can have access to "special process" that have him at your side right away!![/i] THIS is who Warframe pays for itself....and why Digital Extremes can afford to have players like yourself in the game for 4 years and "only" spend 20. Because they are extracting lots of money from other players. I played Warframe for about 2 months...and spent close to $100...before I figured out what the deal was. That I was either going to be giving that game jaw-slackening amounts of my time (which I didn't enjoy the game enough to put up with the sheer grindiness of it all)....or a continuous stream of my money. ...and I wasn't of a mind to be manipulated out of that either. Yes, Warframe is a "good deal" for the gamer who is time-rich-and-cash-poor. It is NOT a good deal for the gamer who is time-poor-but-flush-with-cash....once you lift your head and actually look at whats going on.

Here’s the problem with everything you just said Warframe isn’t a game for one night a week play. It’s not an hour everyday game either it’s 8 hours daily so if warframes mtx make the lazy players lazier why complain. Someone buying prime access doesn’t impact me it’s not pay to win its pay to get access to easier. That being said if you can manage four hours everyday you won’t feel the need to pay and supporting warframe is fully player choice. I supported DE and I’m MR15 I love it yes I fall behind yes it’s a chore but I’ve never seen a game so upfront about our appeal is to the hardcore gamers not the casuals.

Now. My turn. 1. I've been playing loot-based games since the original Diablo....or 20 years. Which means I don't need you to explain to me how they work....or what it means to INVEST in a game. 2. With nearly 4000 hours invested in the Destiny franchise, I have NO PROBLEMS with a grind. But what I will not tolerate is having my time disrespected....or myself being manipulated into compulsively playing a game for limited enjoyment of the actual game play. IOW, If I'm having so much fun just PLAYING the game, I'm willing to put up with a heavy grind. But when the grind is all that the game really has to offer (Warframe, Monster Hunter World) from my perspective then there's a problem. 3. What Warframe does isn't "hardcore'...its MANIPULATIVE. And its manipulative in a manner that is SPECIFICALLY calculated to extract money from adult gamers who are more likely to have excess cash...and limited time. It is NOT "up front" to have you grind for two weeks for materials to forge a weapon you've been working towards....and THEN TRY TO MONETIZE YOUR ANTICIPATION IN WANTING TO PLAY WITH IT...by throwing up an artificial barrier in front of you being able to use it. Then RANSOMING it BACK to you. "You can get to use it now, for $5." During Curse of Osiris, Bungie didn't hold the Forge weapons we grinded for HOSTAGE as a means of trying to extract money out of people. They didn't go, "Oh hey.....nice hand cannon you got there. You can play it now for $3...otherwise you're going to have to wait two more days." That kind of manipulation is disrespectful of a player's time...and borderline insulting. Which is why I walked away from Warframe, and feel no urge whatsoever to go back. I DONT" have to tolerate that from a game....and I won't.

The gamers with the time don’t pay the dime unless they feel like DE has earned it. The gamers without the time should stick to being kinder guardians

And you are in position to tell me what to do with either my time or my money. Since you've done nothing to earn either. Nothing Warframe has to offer me is worth either the time or the money it demands. Which is why I don't play. Now go deal with your own life. You'll find that will keep you busy enough.

Toxic jeez Your choice is fine by me it just means I don’t gotta worry about running into you in my missions anytime soon.

You get what you give. I’m just giving you your own toxicity back. If you want respect then show some.

I don't know KG, I've played 800+ hours and I have bought platt packs to show support to DE because I really liked playing the game. I though, will grind for that weapon or frame and wait sometimes 3 days for frames. I have self control, some don't....I thank those people for keeping the game funded...lol. If they want to spend a $100 a month and enjoying doing that, more power to them. Its not my money. Oh, I never felt pressured to buy anything, and I believe its the most fair system as far as micros go. I played one game that wanted $20 for a mount! I was like "wtf"...ahhh, no thanks. So basically I'm saying that the micros are not as bad as you might think, and you can trade for platt to boot.

[quote]So basically I'm saying that the micros are not as bad as you might think, and you can trade for platt to boot.[/quote] You can only trade for plat, because someone else gave DE MONEY to get it. As I said below, my time is my most valuable asset...and Warframe is designed in a manner such that it seeks to either control your time.....or get you to pay money to get control of that time back. I walked away because I was not prepared to surrender control of either to it. I agree that the MTX in Warframe is "fair" in terms that it is VERY transparent. But what DE does in terms of the design of the GAME in an effort to incentivize microspending is far more manipulative than anything Bungie's been accused of doing with Destiny. I felt far more pressure to spend money...simply to progress in WF...than I ever felt playing Destiny or any other AAA .

LOL. Why did you spend $100 when you could have gotten free plat from trading? Yes, people buy stuff and help fund the game and DE can make new content free for all, but no one actually payed for ME to get stuff. I and I alone still had the get the stuff I wanted. I had to farm hours and hours and hours to scan plants to build Titania. I had to farm Nidus for hours and hours. No one payed my way. The paid to help DE develop new free content for me to enjoy, but I still had to get off my butt and play the game to get it. Did you also know that year ago you had to pay to change your subrow fur color and DE saw that someone spent $200 on it and THEY decided one their now to remove it? Who cares about the wait time. Just play something else while you wait.

[quote]LOL. Why did you spend $100 when you could have gotten free plat from trading?[/quote] Because the time I would have spent doing that is more valuable to me than the money. THAT's the point you keep missing. I pay $35 a week to have someone mow my lawn. I am PERFECTLY capable of getting out there and doing it myself. But after a long work week, I don't WANT to spend my leisure time doing it. So I pay someone else to do it, because the TIME it saves me, is more valuable to me than the money I'm paying to have it done. People do it for me because---to them---the money is more valuable than the time. WARFRAME MONETIZES ITSELF BY LEVERAGING THAT DIFFERING VALUE PEOPLE PLACE ON TIME VS MONEY. [quote]Who cares about the wait time. Just play something else while you wait.[/quote] I CARE about the wait time....because my TIME is my most valuable asset....and the time that I have to game and do the other leisure activities that I enjoy is EXTREMELY precious. Which is PRECISELY why Digital Extremes and other FTP game devs put those artificial pain points into the game...and why Warframe is so grindy in such an over-the-top manner. If it wasn't that way. DE would go bankrupt. Because it couldn't afford to create content for the game and continue to service if NO ONE paid anything and EVERYONE played for free. YOU CAN'T TRADE FOR PLATINUM UNLESS SOMEONE HAS GIVEN CASH TO DE. Platinum can only be obtained from DE in exchange for money. So whenever you "trade" for it. You're looking at someone else's cash investment in the game. ...and someone else paying your way, in terms of paying for the game's upkeep.

What I meant about the build time is, build something, then play something else or do something else. Play it more casually and you won't feel like you have to spend any amount of money on it. That's what I do.

[quote]What I meant about the build time is, build something, then play something else or do something else.[/quote] Which is fine when you have an abundance of time to game. Not every one does. [quote]Play it more casually and you won't feel like you have to spend any amount of money on it.[/quote] Again, I'm not willing to surrender control of my TIME to a game and have it DICTATE to me how I should spend it. The irriation that cash strapped gamers feel with Bungie around paying continuously for expansions and DLC...is the same irritation I feel with DE and Warframe over the their efforts to control my time as a gamer. I understand that this is what DE needs to do to pay its bills and pay its people. But I don't enjoy the game enough to put up with it. Which is why I walked away. I dont' begrudge anyone else their enjoyment of the game. I just want to make it clear that NOTHING....least of all this game....is truly "free". Digital Extreme's goes out of business...and Warframe would go away if it were actually, and truly "FREE".

Well, obviously nothing in life is truly free.