Idk if you remember when d1 launched but other than initial sales The player count plummeted immediately People were returning it left and right. Review scores were poor and so on

I remember. Its interesting to see the die-hards hating on the raids, I wonder if the player fall off will be even worse this time.

To be fair. People are being over dramatic. I have been no-lifeing the game since launch. I have yet to hit the power cap, I have yet to find every exotic, I have yet to finish the raid. It certainly has it's issues, the lack of random perks will show it's ugly head the second everyone reaches the final power cap, however we are still quite a bit from that. Hopefully they will have a system ready to go to deal with that after the prestige difficulty raid hits. Cause that is when we will see content dry up fast. At least there is an expansion hitting in desember and then presumably in march/april. However after that who knows how long we will have to wait for the next content update. At the very least we know that bungie is aware of this issue. What scares me is that the last time they spoke about it, they did not seem to know how to deal with it. Which is quite scary for the longevity of the game.

I've now got 11 Graviton lance from exotic engrams. Why should I even bother to continue. I can't infuse it into anything other than a pulse rifle. It's a complete waste of time and is sapping the fun out of PvE. PvP on the other hand is trash and they've ruined it to compensate for a few cry babies from D1.

I think the point is it's to boring to reach level caps or grind.

If you think it is boring to grind then Destiny is not the game for you. The grind is extremely important for the longevity of the game. The balance of the grind is a hard thing to master and Bungie might not be there yet, but they need to appeal to the people that enjoy grinding, because those are the people that stay the longest.

So why do I not like it then as a player with over 2000hrs in d1 I enjoy the grind with the best of them but d2 to me is just boring.

The grind is destiny 1 was hardly about light level. It was about getting that elusive gjallahorn or getting that perfect roll. Without gear incentives, light level grind is pointless and not fun at all

I like grinds I played D1 for three years. It's has to be fun, rewarding and grind worthy. Sadly D2 fails at all three.

I feel like you completely forgot D1 day1. The grind sucked, when you finally got to 27* you had to run VoG non stop for gear and had to hope it was A.) A piece you didn't have. B.) Itemized the way you needed it to keep CDs running smoothly and perks in tune with what you needed. C.) Actually got every piece of armor or you could kiss your 30* level out the window. Running the raid every week for several months left me without gloves or a helmet until well after Krota came out. FTS

Let's say you're right and I forgot. I still couldn't give a pass for D2 being they ended with a great product in D1. Then learned nothing and made this mess.

Because of? Why do you believe grinding was more fun in Destiny 1 than 2?

It's not belief it's fact for me D2 is boring I don't like it and I've been playing D1 again.

I was more indicating that you should try to ponder what exactly is it that makes the experience that different. The grind is part of the game. Lack of random rolls will become a problem, but it shouldn't really matter until you have gotten and played around with all the guns and capped your light, which is still far away. I am wondering if you could try to identify why you find the game so much more boring at this point compared to Destiny 1.

Numerous factors make it no fun to me and not grind worthy.

Ok. Which?

Progression system is just bad really bad Obtaining light after 270 is just not planned well Exotics engrams Weekly milestones That's the system other wise anything drops below your current light level. Static rolls just horrible Supers are weak Ability charge times very slow No special weapons Character movement is extremely slow Energy weapons are only useful for breaking shields. You literally get penalized with precision damage reduction in energy weapons vs primary. They are useful for what 5% or less of the game. Lost sectors added no value they are caves with normal enemies and a yellow bar and it isn't rewarding at all. They take a minute or 2 max. Can't choose game modes everything is quick play and rng what you play. Strikes are slow boring and useless and no heroics with modifiers. Patrols where fun like a few days. The raid was just boring and repetitive very underwhelming a snooze fest. The new vendor rank up rng engrams poor decision also you can't buy all weapons they offer. No bounties to rank up vendors farming coins and material another bore. No arena style mode like PoE or CoE. Heavy weapons are underwhelming what happen to destruction like ghally or truth. Probably a few more things but I'm done listing. I'm also fine with PvP being balanced separate I don't care to much about PvP. That said I don't want to ruin PvPers experience like the PVE has been ruined.

[quote]Progression system is just bad really bad Obtaining light after 270 is just not planned well Exotics engrams Weekly milestones That's the system other wise anything drops below your current light level. [/quote] How is it different from Destiny 1 though? Since taken king progression has been capped on legendary engrams and further increases had to be done through weekly quests, events or exotic engrams. It is almost exactly the same. Well except for the need to farm three of coins, which was a pointless system to begin with. The rest of your reasons don't really pertain to the grind aspect of the game. Rather it seems you have decided not to like the game because it is different. Which is a fine stance to put forth, but it was not your original statement. However your list also has quite a few discrepancies. [quote] Patrols where fun like a few days. [/quote] Yet they are exactly the same they were in Destiny 1. [quote] The new vendor rank up rng engrams poor decision also you can't buy all weapons they offer. [/quote] Vendors always had RNG packages. The fact that they were renamed to engrams does not affect the system one bit. The lack of purchasable gear does not really fit within your narrative. There used to be static rolls on vendor gear. How would that have enriched the grind in any way? [quote] No bounties to rank up vendors farming coins and material another bore. [/quote] They renamed and redesigned the bounty system. It is still in the game. It is just called challenges now. Not to mention that there are way more activities that gain you faction xp now than it ever was in Destiny 1. I agree that farming materials is a bore and rather pointless, but how was that anymore fun in Destiny 1? At least now you can totally abstain from it as the rewards for doing it is rather weak. I mean you are entitled to have any opinion you want. However your claim that the grind is more boring this time around is just irrational. The grind is built in almost the exact same way. Generally the game is more lenient in the rewards it gives out. Like luminous engrams dropping up to 10 above your actual power, and the ease of access to some of the weekly milestones required for said engrams. However there are some exceptions. Trials end of game rewards used to drop at light, now they drop at your soft cap, which makes it rather bad for power progression. The raid has a terrible loot reward system, where you are only guaranteed 1 item that drops above your power level upon completion. And we have yet to see the Iron Banner, which also used to drop gear at light, however considering the changes to raid and trials drops I would not expect that to continue in Destiny 2 either.

[quote][quote]Progression system is just bad really bad Obtaining light after 270 is just not planned well Exotics engrams Weekly milestones That's the system other wise anything drops below your current light level. [/quote] How is it different from Destiny 1 though? Since taken king progression has been capped on legendary engrams and further increases had to be done through weekly quests, events or exotic engrams. It is almost exactly the same. Well except for the need to farm three of coins, which was a pointless system to begin with. The rest of your reasons don't really pertain to the grind aspect of the game. Rather it seems you have decided not to like the game because it is different. Which is a fine stance to put forth, but it was not your original statement. However your list also has quite a few discrepancies. [quote] Patrols where fun like a few days. [/quote] Yet they are exactly the same they were in Destiny 1. [quote] The new vendor rank up rng engrams poor decision also you can't buy all weapons they offer. [/quote] Vendors always had RNG packages. The fact that they were renamed to engrams does not affect the system one bit. The lack of purchasable gear does not really fit within your narrative. There used to be static rolls on vendor gear. How would that have enriched the grind in any way? [quote] No bounties to rank up vendors farming coins and material another bore. [/quote] They renamed and redesigned the bounty system. It is still in the game. It is just called challenges now. Not to mention that there are way more activities that gain you faction xp now than it ever was in Destiny 1. I agree that farming materials is a bore and rather pointless, but how was that anymore fun in Destiny 1? At least now you can totally abstain from it as the rewards for doing it is rather weak. I mean you are entitled to have any opinion you want. However your claim that the grind is more boring this time around is just irrational. The grind is built in almost the exact same way. Generally the game is more lenient in the rewards it gives out. Like luminous engrams dropping up to 10 above your actual power, and the ease of access to some of the weekly milestones required for said engrams. However there are some exceptions. Trials end of game rewards used to drop at light, now they drop at your soft cap, which makes it rather bad for power progression. The raid has a terrible loot reward system, where you are only guaranteed 1 item that drops above your power level upon completion. And we have yet to see the Iron Banner, which also used to drop gear at light, however considering the changes to raid and trials drops I would not expect that to continue in Destiny 2 either.[/quote] Progression isn't even close to the same. D1 Strike chest Archons forge CoE Exotic engrams Raid chest Weekly crucible bounties Sunrise bounty Vendors sold weapons that where 10 below max light not your current light. Nightfall Trials Iron banner Regular crucible rewards D2 Weekly milestone power engrams Small chance from raid The extremely rare exotic engrams It's no where near the same. You just have BS flying out your mouth at an astonishing rate and it's quite frankly amazing. You should be on Bungie's PR and marketing team. Patrols in Destiny 1 you got rewards once a day for completing them so no burn out. Patrols now are the most effective way to farm which is dumb. It's a 2 min activity that drops nothing good unless you get the rare exotic. Yes vendors had RnG packages but at least you could choose armor or weapons. Plus you could buy any weapon or armor for legendary marks so RnG didn't matter and items are only below max light by 10 not current light. Way way better. Also if 3oC was pointless the then the current vendor buff for loot and xp is really pointless. You can get maybe 2 exotic engrams every 4 hours. In D1 I could get 3 an hour with 3oC speed run strikes or CoE I averaged 1 exotic per 5 3oC. That's way better than this garbage.