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7/27/2017 1:28:38 AM
42

The New Weapon System Results in Far More Variety (don't shoot the messenger, it's just math)

I originally posted this a reply to another thread, but I thought maybe it deserved its own thread. The reason the new system is better is flexibility. Keep reading for the details. So, I actually fall into the camp of people who see this system as an improvement in PvP and as something that is neutral in PvE. Though maybe it is better in PvE as well, because more variety is more fun, and now people won't simply mow down every boss without engaging in the fight mechanics by spamming snipers and rocket launchers. The kinetic/elemental/power system they have now actually is more flexible. This is because, especially Destiny 2, there is more variety in primary weapons than there was in special and power weapons in Destiny 1. In Destiny 1 you had special weapons 1) shotgun, 2) sniper, 3) fusion, 4) the later added sidearm (tell me if I am forgetting anything). For heavy weapons you had 1) HMG, 2) Rocket Launcher, and 3) the later added sword. for Primaries there were 1) Auto Rifles, 2) Scout Rifles, 3) Pulse Rifles, and 4) Hand Cannons. This means that between your Primary and Special Slot, you had 8 possible weapons you could equip. This means you had 16 possible combinations between your first two slots, and 48 possible combinations across all weapon slots. In Destiny 2, you have 6 potential kinetic/energy weapons: 1) AR, 2) HC, 3) PR, 4) SA, 5) SMG, 6) SR. This means that you have 21 possible combinations in your first two slots. In Destiny 2 you have 6 potential power weapons: 1) Sniper, 2) Rocket Launcher, 3) Grenade Launcher, 4) Shotgun, 5) Fusion Rifle, 6) Sword, and 7) Linear Fusion Rifle. This means that you have 147 potential weapon class combinations in Destiny 2. [b]48 weapon combos possible in D1; 147 weapon combos possible in D2. [/b] That is a HELL of a lot more variety. The combos can't be exactly the same as in D1, which is what has people so bent out of shape, but that is a MUCH more flexible toolkit than what we had in D1. If you have a boner for auto rifles and like using them exclusively, -blam!- it, equip two of them, one kinetic and one the element you need. If you want to have one long range weapon and one short range weapon, do a Scout with an SMG or a sidearm. If you get a great exotic, no longer do you have to worry about what you will equip in the other slot so that the exotic doesn't gimp you. If you get an exotic that you love but it is geared toward close encounters, you can equip another weapon for long-range. This system is much, much more flexible. The only thing you can't do now is equip a heavy with a special that also hits like a heavy. I view it as a good change. Weapons capable of a 1HKO are lumped together, so you REALLY have to think about what you want to bring as your big enchilada. No more equipping a brutally powerful sniper rifle with Gjallarhorn and doing an entire boss fight with only those two weapons and wiping the boss in a matter of seconds. I think this is going to make the game more interesting and a lot more fun, once people get over it.

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  • You can throw all the maths at the forums you want..... At the end of the day, 2x primaries is 2x primaries....

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  • Still one problem...we are stuck with two primaries.

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    • I don't care about variety if all the options are mediocre/bad. I look at this like I do when I compare Burger King with Inn and Out Burger. Yes, BK offers greater variety, but that doesn't result in a better meal. All their variety in the world doesn't mean that they make the best burger, it just means all their options are mediocre. Inn and Out Burger only does a few varieties of burgers, fries, and shakes. THAT is all. And they make a far superior Burger when compares to Burger King. When I get in the mood for a fast food Burger, guess what? I go to Inn and Out over BK any day. Variety isn't always good if ALL the options aren't good. And no matter the combination, no combination of primary + primary is going to beat primary+secondary.

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      • Here's the new meta: Whatever primary/elemental scout rifle/rocket launcher. Watch you'll see.

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      • Editado por Death_by_Mukbang: 7/30/2017 2:00:46 PM
        I don't see an issue with the new weapons system. You mean I can have a scout rifle, hand cannon and rocket launcher in my loadout? Lmao ok, sounds good to me! Thought the game was supposed to get [i]more[/i] challenging?

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        • Editado por Kone19ps: 7/27/2017 10:20:29 AM
          You ignore quality of combinations. Just more doesn't mean jack shit if it's boring which combination of low ability use and high primary use does in pve. Primary with burn is only helpful if you didn't manage your secondary in D1 and trading that for almost no ammo for special and heavy combined for more elemental primary makes the game boring from being forced to stay back and being unable to jump into the fray as much. This forces me back into the sit in the back and clear adds playstyle again. Just a little less spongy enemies

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        • We have energy weapons...but else do they do besides drop enemy shields? I do like running with an auto rifle in my kinetic and a scout for hard energy-hittin' damage.

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        • Not to throw a monkey wrench into your numbers but the variety in Destiny 1 was higher. Not by weapons per slot ratio only but perk variety as well. D2 perk system is pretty much set in stone, with the potential for one perk to change.

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          • I originally replied to your post in another thread, but here you go [quote]147 garbage combinations. Any special weapon or heavy weapon is stronger than a primary. Having two third tier weapons and one second or first tier is never as strong as a third, second, and first tier combination.[/quote]

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          • Honestly if you have all the variety in the world and lack the power behind it then it turns into a chore, yes in D2 we have KINETIC ENERGY POWER but right now in D1 we have KINETIC/ENERGY POWER POWER so in battle D1 is still more effective than in D2 and causes even less confusion in loadout Oh! you are out of Power Ammo in D2? sucks to be you In D1 out of power ammo? dont worry you have 2 types of power ammo so you are good to rock. And you forget that in D2 rolls are fixed which super gimps the so called VARIETY you speak off. so yeah people have a right to be pissed

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          • There's a difference between possible variety and functional variety. In D1 pve endgame I would see all types of regular primary types, snipers, shotguns, fusions, rockets, swords, the sleeper (linear fusion), and rarely machine guns. Sidearms would occasionally see regular use for burns. The reason most of specials and heavies were viable was because they had overlapping roles of major killer, boss DPS, and mass add control. If you chose a sniper, a sword could be equipped to help you in close vs majors or quickly thin adds. Wanted to use a shotgun, sleeper or the right rocket or mg could give you boss DPS. Same with regular fusions. There was always a combo to run if you really wanted to run a specific weapon type. With D2 I'd expect snipers to be a must for endgame pve, save possible high powered exotics. The double primaries just don't do well for boss DPS, so the heavy slot must equip something that can do this.

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          • Editado por IcyShogun: 7/30/2017 11:33:18 AM
            There are 2 garages you can choose from. Garage One is full of hundreds of shitty little european econoboxes. (vauxhall corsas, golfs etc) Garage Two contains 20 of the world's finest exotic cars. Which of these 2 garages would you like to own?

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            • Editado por ironBill: 7/27/2017 9:36:29 PM
              Lost me at "PvE blasting endgame by spamming rockets and snipers." You guys say that as if it's not how it was designed to be played. Run Taken King heroic mode raid with only primary. Film it and post it. If you can't/don't your words are empty.

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              • True, the real reason why the three-weapon loadout was strong was because of added versatility in more situations. There were a few times, here and there, when I would have liked to be able to equip two primaries... this was most notable in my Last Word days, when I wanted a scout for sniping with (I suck with real snipers). But the Last Word is gone. To elaborate, consider the following three-type loadouts. Primary: Pulse rifle: Medium to long-range combat. Special: Shotgun: Extreme damage against close-in threats. Heavy: Rocket launcher: Extreme wide-scale damage at long range. Primary: Autorifle: General short to medium range combat. Special: Sniper: Long-range killing. Heavy: Sword: Extreme up-close damage. Three types of weapons for very different things. Now consider: Kinetic: Pulse rifle: Medium to long range combat. Energy: Submachine Gun: Short-range combat Power: Fusion: Extreme damage at short to medium range. Kinetic: Handcannon: Short to medium range combat. Energy: Scout: Long range combat Power: Shotgun: Extreme damage at short range. I tried to be fair and provide sensible loadouts both ways. And, the D2 loadouts are not entirely horrible, they do have the potential of covering most ranges adequately. Still, the three-type loadouts just seem more versatile, and certainly more destructive. Maybe once SMG's can hold a target and scouts do serious damage, the two primary combo will grow on me a little more. Certainly if the Last Word comes back...

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                • Editado por JeanKennedy: 7/27/2017 7:16:57 PM
                  Who cares about the number of combinations you loser. Nobody wants to run around with 2 damn primaries it's not fun at all. There's a reason you have no upvotes

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                  • See you're looking at it from a purely math viewpoint. Sure, the numbers show more combinations, but that's all it does show, not when the weapon in those slots are virtually identical beyond smg's in the special slot. Its like having garlic in the primary and garlic salt in the seondary and saying 'see its different, variety!' to use a food example.

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                  • Editado por CatMan: 7/29/2017 7:33:25 PM
                    Whoever originally wrote that didn't think at all. Probably was a damn dev. Two slots with the exact same weapons types (only difference is the burn) isn't "flexibility". Dps on bosses will probably suck. Regular damage (primary), Heavy damage (secondary), and massive damage (heavy) VS Regular damage (primary), Regular damage (primary), and maybe sometimes (depending on purple drops) Heavy or kinda heavy damage. People are to hyped, and hype can be bad thing. Edit: 48 weapons I know I'll use vs 147 weapons (note most are primary....) Of a limiting system. I'll go with the 48. And that 48 could have gone up if they had just added the new weapons to the current system? duh.

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                    • Stop drinking the coolaid, it's not better and never will be. The pvp crowd have got their way and bungie refuse to go against them. Simple facts.

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                    • Sorry, i don't understand : are you telling that haning, for exemple, two pulse rifle in the first two slots is variety?

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                      • If the combinations are mostly between auto/pulse/scout/HC there could be a thousand different combinations....I still wouldn't care.... Two primaries is two primaries at the end of the day...

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                      • Why do I always hear about sniper/rocket spamming in PvE and yet have never seen it? Just like the mythical "pvp ability spam simulator" complaint I always hear. Why is it that tier 12 geared characters are held as the standard of the player base? Are we being silly?

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                      • Yeah, shitty variety. Replacing my sniper with a Airsoft energy weapon is retarded. So tired of PvP -blam!-ing up the game.

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                        • And way less damage output and fun.

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                        • Bump

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                        • Couldn't agree more ...

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                        • You are happy for 2 primaries, what a retarded

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