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7/24/2017 1:55:57 PM
59
Did the people who defend SBMM never play Halo?
And who is designing this MM system? Did they not work on Halo?
I see this myth going around that you "need tight SBMM to protect the average player".
Uh. Did you never play halo?
Halo had ranked lists and social lists. Ranked had tight sbmm and party size MM. Social had very loose sbmm (or as its know here, cbmm)
The overwhelming majority choose CBMM.
The thing about tight sbmm is that it makes the game feel competitive or "sweaty" for ALL levels. Most players are not competitive gamers so this does not appeal to them.
This is why most people chose social. Social gives players a varied experience. In this varied experience they get a mix of competitive games, games where they get destroyed and games where THEY destroy. For most people this cadence is more enjoyable then sweat fests every single game.
The most important thing halo did with ranked/social was give people a choice. A choice between sbmm and cbmm. Destiny can also do this with quick play and competive. Which is why it's so baffling that in the beta qp and comp both used the same sbmm MM.
It's probably the most baffling design decision in d2 so far.
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[quote]And who is designing this MM system? Did they not work on Halo? I see this myth going around that you "need tight SBMM to protect the average player". Uh. Did you never play halo? Halo had ranked lists and social lists. Ranked had tight sbmm and party size MM. Social had very loose sbmm (or as its know here, cbmm) The overwhelming majority choose CBMM. The thing about tight sbmm is that it makes the game feel competitive or "sweaty" for ALL levels. Most players are not competitive gamers so this does not appeal to them. This is why most people chose social. Social gives players a varied experience. In this varied experience they get a mix of competitive games, games where they get destroyed and games where THEY destroy. For most people this cadence is more enjoyable then sweat fests every single game. The most important thing halo did with ranked/social was give people a choice. A choice between sbmm and cbmm. Destiny can also do this with quick play and competive. Which is why it's so baffling that in the beta qp and comp both used the same sbmm MM. It's probably the most baffling design decision in d2 so far.[/quote]
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I guess everyone came back to D1. I was having awesome connections last week and now back to shit again
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Ive played Halo(2-5). Liked social/ranked option. Been asking for that in Destiny for awhile
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I do hope for QP to be strictly CBMM and that is someone who doesnt mind being sweaty.
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9 RespuestasEditado por Moshrok: 7/25/2017 8:55:07 PMYeah the guy with the crazy KD wants to keep his crazy KD, got it. SBMM is the best way to keep the most people playing decent 'competitive' games most of the time. Competitive here does not mean sweaty, it means close at the end. Close games are interesting games, and the best way to get close games is SBMM. My hope is that they don't bring back Trials or anything like it. When trials was added it changed the pvp culture across the board in a negative way, suddenly players took driving little cartoon people around on a screen way too seriously.
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2 RespuestasY can't we just halo a damn ranking system for glory not 4 loot
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8 RespuestasTo be quite honest I think this community needs to take a collective business class to under why Bungie does what it does. They make changes based on what they finds and what the community has said. Many in this thread have said that the majority of PvP players could not feel when sbmm was loosened and it was definitely loosened. As someone on the end of the spectrum of more skill I definitely felt the sauna door open (yes my username and KD have a direct correlation). Good and bad players alike need to understand a couple points. 1. As a good player people are going to be targeting you. Get used to it. If you wanna be the best you have to fight for it. It's not just given to you. End of story. I don't care about your fun. Quit your bitching. 2. As a bad player you need to understand getting your shit pushed in helps you learn if you know what to look for. If you don't know what to look for then you can watch 10s of thousands of videos on positioning and bad engagement in the crucible. The only reason you are bad is because of you. Quit your bitching. TLDR: Everyone quit your bitching. If you wanna be the best, fight for it. If you wanna get good, fight for it.
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My whole problem is that SBMM should only be in competitive game modes like Trials and Iron Banner, but with Destiny 2 it should be in the Comp Playlist. Quickplay should have CBMM for better games and nicer connections. MY biggest reason for preferring SBMM over CBMM: You can't put a team of pros versus a solo queue of new players and say it's fair.
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42 RespuestasYou know what else you get with heavy cbmm and no sbmm? Mostly uneven matches. Players quitting out of blowouts. Constantly joining matches in-progress and losing badly. A severely punishing system for newer or less skilled players. That's why D1 always used both and would tweek the algorithms trying to find a sweet spot. The epidemic of shit games, players quitting and always joining in-progress in year one led to so much bitching on the forums that they upped the sbmm in year 2. It DRASTICALLY reduced those issues. Then Triplewreck decided that he didn't like having to actually compete and made his "sbmm sucks, it's too sweaty" video and all the lemmings joined his charade. I'm all for D2 having a more cbmm and a more sbmm playlist, but the simple fact is that all the generalizations being vollied about regarding sbmm are by and large not true and most people fail to understand that there are so many factors going into matching teams that there are really no cut and dried easy solutions to pleasing everyone. The fact is sbmm does a lot of good for a lot of players and the "elite" fraction of the player base it makes feel like they're having to work too hard to protect their k/d's, elo's or subscriber numbers shouldn't get to dictate the experience of everyone who try to enjoy the game.
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3 RespuestasI played halo and defended sbmm
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1 RespuestaI really dont understand why dont they have social and ranked playlists here too. Like maje modes like clash, rumble, control and combined arms cbmm, and countdown, Trials and elimination sbmm. Thatd make both sweaty players and average players happy.
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4 RespuestasI defend skill based match making Yes I do play halo Had a champ in H5 last season I'm currently onyx in slayer and arena with a diamond in HCS Don't be a pvssy son
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The worst thing about sbmm is the connection. I don't mind playing great players, but if my connection is arse...i do.
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Editado por Deep Medi: 7/26/2017 12:33:55 PMI fully believe if people actually experienced a high skill game they wouldn't want sbmm. Its absolutely 0 fun allowed, this every game is awful. There was also Zero posts about not having sbmm in social playlists on the halo forums ..also, the majority of people saying Lag with Sbmm is exaggerated are low skill - average so there is a bigger pool of players for them to play with (Hint: this means less/no lag)
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The guy with a 2.7 k/d doesn't want SBMM???
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Halo 2 was GOAT
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Editado por DaGroove: 7/25/2017 9:23:44 PM[quote]Did they not work on Halo?[/quote] No, not the same people. Plus: sbmm MM = skill based match making match making Also, you're very right.
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CBMM all the way here too man. Sbmm sucks creates lag and lag makes for a more frustrating match than getting beat down. I really can't see why sbmm is even on the table for regular crucible.
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Editado por Church100: 7/26/2017 1:24:01 AMI remember (reach) the days of halo 2 and 3 matchmaking so i can fully understand where you're coming from mate. I've always held halo 2 multi up to be almost perfect (in my eyes) matchmaking-wise and was even discussing it the other day with a few ps (non-destiny) players and how i never understood how, having got it so right (in my opinion) so early on, other companies didn't use the same thing. That being said, i do understand where the other guy is coming from in terms of not wanting every match to be sweaty but that was the beauty of the social playlist. The ranked was for trying to achieve something and push higher up the ranks and social was to f*ck about, try new things, different weapons or control set-ups (like those f*cking 'bumper jumpers' or 'the claw'). Thing is, with D2 supposedly having more focus on clans, that could be a way of splitting the two playlists. Have a ranked playlist for clans and a social playlist for playing as individuals or with friends from other clans for example. I appreciate there is the view that it could stop individual players from participating in the ranked playlist but on the other hand it might convince them to join a clan or set up their own, which would surely benefit them in the long run with D2's activities. Am not saying this is a definitive way forward or solution to all the matchmaking issues, just a suggestion on a possible way to improve the crucible set-up.
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this is the best written post about this topic. sadly neither 99% of the people on the forums nor current bungie employees are capable of thinking this way. oh how i wish bungie would prove me wrong..
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4 RespuestasEditado por Haunter: 7/25/2017 8:34:39 AMYep, either have a few playlists with [i]in game, [b]visable[/b][/i] ranks and some social where it's pure CBMM or it should be totally CBMM. It's ridiculous bungie feel the lower tier players need to be "protected". I'd feel insulted tbh, it's like going for a swim and the lifeguard looks you up and down and says "go use the kiddie pool". The only way to learn and improve is by playing everyone, you win some you lose some both are learning examples, not fighting just your stats and never feel likes there's been any improvement, not to mention how SBMM practically removes [u]any[/u] incentive to improve. After all if you'll face the same level no matter what why bother improving? Finally why would I play in SBMM with friends not as good as me? Why would friends better then me invite me to tank thier lobby?
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I played tons of Halo, I liked the H2/H3 system the most. SBMM in destiny, I feel is well intent, but is pretty bad when you wanna play with underskilled friends in a varying skill algorithm.
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I used to play halo 2 and then 3, played 2 religiously for a long time. As far as I can remember it was sbmm as everyone was ranked, never had a problem with it. Even with the connection speeds that people had back then. I would rather sbmm, the connection problems were hugely exaggerated by morons jumping on the band wagon.
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You get cbmm and most people complain that everybody is better. You get sbmm and most people complain about lag, and some even complain that people are still better than they are. I personally don't really care. I always felt that the whole "sbmm = lag" is over exaggerated, and I don't care if somebody is better than me as long as they are cheating or using unfair advantages.
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2 RespuestasThat's why Halo is the superior franchise. Anyone who says otherwise is a filthy heretic and traitor to the Covenant Fleet. [i][b]YOU WILL BE HUNG BY YOUR ENTRAILS AND PARADED AROUND A CITY[/b][/i]
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No lie.. i always had a squad on halo.. granted i was in college without real world responsibilities lol.... here i just join random squads based on my time.. granted i could find better... but i don't have the time to manifest them relationships.... i don't complain cuz its just entertaining to stray away from real life... but some people here think that they will make money here lol must be nice to be young hahha
