[quote]The beta has only one story and one strike to do for PVE and I hope this is not indicative of the content coming for Destiny 2[/quote] No, it isn't. The Beta for Destiny 1, was a game demo masquerading as a beta. This beta is a "Tech Test" to look for balance problems and network issues....and that's all. Bungie is clearly and deliberately avoiding showing us what the game has content-wise. Since we---frankly---abused the priviliege back in 2014. Content creators abused the access they were given in 2104 and revealed nearly 40% of the game by the time the game released. When we do something Bungie doesn't like, they don't bitch at us about it. They just remove our ability to do that thing they didn't like. So this time around, they just aren't going to give us that same degree of access to the game before launch.

But in the same breath they are giving people a feel for what the game will feel like, roughly, on Day 1 of launch. And most people aren't liking it. Yes, I know this is a beta and tweaks will be made, but I can't say why they would unroll the beta and have it be terrible when they're looking to solidify pre-orders and win over skeptics about all of the changes they have made. If you judge by the reactions on the board, those changes are not being well received, particularly by those in PVE. On average, the PVE and PVP community is split down the middle, maybe with a slight tilt towards PVE. Remaking a game for the minority of PVP players doesn't seem smart to me. And even these changes won't please all PVP players, it'll just please the uber-sweaties and the casual masses who also play PVP will be frustrated at the more team-oriented play.

The issue has always been their stubborn attitude or lack of inability to separate both environments. This beta feels geared toward e-sports PvP vs even what we have in D1. The weapon system seems off and power weapon ammo can only be picked up by one player is going to open a lot of salty PM and board messages to an already toxic PvP community. I don't know why it is so hard to separate PvP and PvE but this has been a major flaw since day 1. Hopefully the finished product squashes some of my concerns but their track record has not been good. I get the sense that they don't even know what they are trying to accomplish. In D1, we went through 3-4 weapon/armor systems and progression stages. Looks like all that was scrapped for another one on this beta. Sorry but this just shows me lack of confidence in what they are building. I have not seen a better weapon/armor progression system since D1 day 1, if you ask me. Yes, it was a grind to get all the nodes/abilities unlocked but it offered so much more diversity then any other system they have had since then.

Agreed. This is also a preliminary TUNING of the game...and in my own feedback thread, I raked them over the coals for it. Because the tuning of this game for PVE play is HORRIBLE right now. The movement speed has been nerfed to an annoying degree for PVE play. The offensive ability recharge cooldowns are ridiculously long. Long to the point where they've practically been removed from play...and you are constantly having to "husband" your Super because you don't want to expend it too early, because it takes so long to recharge. Plus the ammo drop rates in the strike are just TERRIBLE. In the boss fight, not only was I running out of ammo for weapons.....there were several occasions where I was a severe risk of running out of ammo COMPLETELY. ...and I mean COMPLETELY. Triple goose eggs. As I've said before, this game's biggest problem is the unwillingness of players ----and Bungie----to let it escape from Halo's shadow. This game was tuned to recreate Halo's feel both in PVP and PVE....and the game's PVE players are having NONE of it. I can live with the changes to the weapon system....even the movement changes, as annoying s they are. But what has been done to ammo drops and the ability cooldowns is just absurd.

[quote]But what has been done to ammo drops and the ability cooldowns is just absurd.[/quote] In terms of cool downs though, there is literally NOTHING they can do about it though. In PVP, players are liking the limited cool downs (at least some anyways), but they hate it in PVE. In theory they could tune them separately so you get more energy in PVE from a kill, but that doesn't solve what I'm guessing is the reality that ability regen times are linked between PVE and PVP - because they simply refuse to separate the two. Having fast recharge times in PVE and slow recharge times in PVP wouldn't preserve that "consistent" feel across both modes. I always knew the new weapon system would fail for PVE. Players simply just like having some really powerful weapons to shoot stuff with. This game was never supposed to be Halo in PVE. Halo was great because you could vary the difficulty level and if you wanted a challenge (and bragging rights) you just stuck the thing on Legendary. I've beaten every single Halo game on legendary. From Halo Wars to Halo 3 to Halo 5. If I wanted that experience with Destiny, I would never have made the switch FROM halo to Destiny. Overall, I have a sense that they're going to lose A LOT of PVE players with D2 and rather than admit their mistakes, they will simply just double down on PVP instead. If there aren't RADICAL changes to this game between now and the first MAJOR, TTK-like DLC, then this WILL be the blueprint moving forward. And that isn't a good thing IMO.

They are linked but it's not immutable. It's also fixable. PvE players just need to speak loudly and clearly that this tuning is not acceptable...and if it isn't changed the will alienate the majority of their player base. ...and this game's pvp just isn't that good. Not good enough to replace the pve players they stand to lose.

[quote] ...and this game's pvp just isn't that good. Not good enough to replace the pve players they stand to lose.[/quote] It never has been, which is why it boggles my mind why they would continue to push it over and over and over again. Look, PVP was never supposed to be this game's niche. That doesn't mean it doesn't have its place. Warframe is a PVE game that HAS PVP. Is the PVP super competitive? No. But it's still fun to play. And that was how it was in Destiny 1. Not the greatest PVP in the world, but good enough for what the game actually was then (a loot grinder), and it was fun. In TTK, they made the move to try to move the game from FUN to competitive. That would have been fine if they made the competitive mode ONE mode (Trials) and trials had its own rules for its own mode. They never did that, and it was stupid for them to basically try to balance the game around Trials thereafter when Trials consisted of less than 10% of the community at large. I don't object to the tuning, I object to the system. Even if they tuned it right, it wouldn't be nearly as fun for me in PVE as it was to run around with a sniper and rocket launcher. Also, the slow movement speed, etc. also doesn't seem like it would be as fun for me. Yet more changes made to try to force the PVP to play like something this game should never have tried to be: Halo. Microsoft will be making all the Halo's backwards compatible for XBONE later this year. My hope is they make Halo 3 backwards compat on the same date D2 launches. At that point, the hardcore PVPers are going to have a choice: Play a game that is already ready made and balanced for MLG play, or play a game that is STILL, three years after the launch of the original, trying to find its way in the world. For me, the choice won't be that hard at all. If I'm going to play PVP, I'm going to play a GOOD PVP game.

[quote]It never has been, which is why it boggles my mind why they would continue to push it over and over and over again.[/quote] Clear as day to me. Halo. You have a very vocal minority within the community----and a very powerful faction within Bungie (The Sandbox Team)----who are HELLBENT on recreating the Halo MP experience WITHIN Destiny.... ...and STUBBORNLY refuse to accept that it can't be done without either BREAKING the PVE side of the game, or a SEVERING of the two sides of the game in terms of gear and ability tuning. You cannot serve two masters----you will love one and hate the other---- but Bungie simply can't seem to hear that basic fact.

Yep. And they will never admit they're wrong if/when D2 tanks. They'll double down on PVP instead, since the only players left will be focusing primarily on PVP. I could be wrong. The game could tank so hard they decide to restart from square one again, but can a game that is 4-5 years in to its 10 year plan REALLY afford yet another reboot? IMO, this is going to be Destiny for the foreseeable future for better or for worse. Only a total severance with Activision may signal that they want to make a change in directions, but I doubt they would find a publisher with the funds to invest in their IP the way Activision has.

What's wrong with this beta doesn't require a reboot. It just requires Bungie to accept the fact that they can't have ONE system serve TWO game modes that have DIAMETRICALLY opposed needs. The problem is that you have a strong faction within Bungie that is clearly advocating for PVP (despite it being a clear minority of the player base), while NO one is speaking up for the needs of the PVE player. That's why the changes to the weapon systems went so badly wrong in D1....and apparently why the tuning of the game's player abilities are off to a similarly bad start for D2. But the fact is that Bungie has gotten away with this mismanagement for three years because it has had no real completion on the PVE side. The Division could have been....but Massive threw up on their shoes....and Ubisoft is too busy fighting off hostile takeovers to really support their games well. That may change a year from now. Bioware is coming out with Anthem....and now Bungie faces a competitor where the PVE aspects of this are RIGHT in their wheelhouse...and what are Bungie's weaknesses are Bioware's strengths So if Bungie keeps taking its PVE player base for granted, it may wake up one morning and find that a competitor has walked off with it.

Before seeing the Beta for D2, I was of the opinion that Anthem and D2 would survive side-by-side for my attention. Honestly, if the Beta is any indication of where D2 is going, I'll probably stop playing D2 if Anthem is at least half-decent. I'm getting really, really tired of taking a back seat to PvP. Really, the Beta has been a HUGE disappointment for me so far, and I've only played one day of it.

Not just Bioware mind you. Watch the 17 minute video of Tennocon 2017 - the plains of eidolon. If they follow through with their plan as shown, Warframe could step in and become a SERIOUS competitor as well. And keep in mind, WF is a free to play game.

Warframe never really appealed to me. But I played the SHIT out of Mass Effect: Andromeda....and that game was a LOT better than the "conventional wisdom" gave it credit for. Anthem will use the same engine as ME: A did. So you will get smooth, satisfying TPS game play....and a HUGE open-world. (ME: As was almost too big). Add to that the fact that Bioware won't be starving Anthem of the man power resources it needs to be a good game like it did to ME: A....and Bioware's long track record of making really good action-RPGs? Bungie needs to get its act together, and stop taking its PVE player base for granted like it has for the last two years.

[quote] Bungie needs to get its act together, and stop taking its PVE player base for granted like it has for the last two years.[/quote] They won't. That's not what they're used to. They've made nothing but PVP-oriented games for the 15 years or so that came before Destiny. Destiny Y1 was their FIRST attempt at a more PVE-oriented game, and it only took them a year to switch back. Like it or not, this is what Destiny is going to be moving forward. I don't see them making drastic changes a year from now, and they're stubborn about refusing to separating PVE from PVP. The only thing that could change this IMO is if they had a significant number of firings within the company, starting with the current sandbox team. But the current sandbox team wouldn't have basically re-ordered the entirety of the game in D2 without the blessing from other higher-ups, so those higher-ups would have to bend the knee so to speak as well. That's not going to happen. Both Bungie and Activision know that PVP games are cheaper to make and make a ton of money. So that is likely going to be their focus from here on out. And if they lose a significant portion of their base? They're comfortable with that fact. I think they'd welcome not having to spend 100's of man hours, if not 1000's developing storylines for raids, creating raids and raid gear, etc. And to put less effort into making strikes and PVE content overall. I can't remember if it was Deej, Luke Smith, or that Noseworthy guy who said it, but they acknowledged that there are a lot of guardians out there who likely won't be continuing on the "adventure" of Destiny. What was unspoken was that they are perfectly comfortable with that.

I don't think you're right about this..... ...but if you are, they are about to learn a very difficult and painful lesson.. It is not guaranteed that all PVP games will make money. Titanfall 2 is arguably one the best games of ANY genre made in the last 12 months, and it has spent its whole life struggling for players. Because it got caught between the two giants of the play ground: Battlefield and Call of Duty. But with the world already HAVING one Halo in the marketplace, the game world doesn't need a second...and a poor copy of it at that. Everyday you look up player stats on destinytracker, 60 of the people who show up to play, show up to play PVE. So either taking that PVE player base for granted....or even more foolishly.... deliberately alienating it, because you think its expendable would be a tragically stupid business move. ...and while Bungie has long proved that they are stubborn, they've never demonstrated that they are stupid.