I agree no way to stop repeatedly roaming supers which come in and kill us in one sided matches and they take our special I hear you say get good but that's not the problem we have nothing to stop them so how are we suppose to get good use side arms they don't stop bladedacers or hammers or stromcallers.

This is pretty much where I'm at. Not a hand cannon guy, not into side arms... Trying everything but, Grasp was my main that I felt most comfortable with on almost any map. Now I feel like I can't compete. I'll never be good with NLB and I've always struggled with hand cannons. Decent with autos and scouts but not nearly as comfortable. I like the idea of, and did ok with, Parthenon Shot but it just feels draggy and cumbersome to me. I feel like this patch would've been ok without all the "Ands"... Examples: They nerfed Grasp speed "And" buffed hand cannons/high impact autos. (The ammo nerf wasn't a biggie cause if I hadn't taken them out by mid clip I was usually dead anyway.) Nerfed shotguns "And" special ammo economy. I feel in many instances one OR the other would've sufficed. ESPECIALLY with Pulses VS hand cannons and autos. They didn't need to buff two and nerf one, buffing the two would've been ok. My poor Grasp can't compete almost at all now. /:( I've exhausted all the Strikes and PVP was my go to but, at four days in, I just can't get the hang of it or compete. Which just isn't fun to me. I might keep trying, have a few things in mind for today in fact... But, at the end of the day, I think I'll pick up some other games and keep watching forums for changes.

It really isn't fun, and the lag seems far worse than it was, i feel like they messed with the matchmaking again.

Have you tried sidearms yet? Because they always have ammo, and, this is just an opinion, they're kind of OP. The Jabberhäkke especially.

The special ammo changes alone made my group leave Destiny. I'm sticking around for the time being but will probably play a different game with them at night. And these are guys who have played every single night since launch. The special ammo changes disrupt the flow of the game and make it less enjoyable in a variety of ways. No one wants to spend a good portion of their playing experience farming for ammo or alternatively be forced to use a gun they do not find as enjoyable as the other options.

Try to get the waltz. It is the same or almost the same class as clever. It doesn't have an ammo nerf.

i always used pulses (high impact ones) and dont have a hard time adjusting but... it rly is boring. if the map is slightly bigger people are camping with snipers or scouts. i dont know, maybe its just destiny pvp is crap compared to something like titanfall 2. even the supers feel so lackluster. dont rly care much about the special nerf, its about time people use primaries. what i dont get is... did they nerf blessing of light? the overshield is gone after just 1 hit.

exactly what i said last night, this feels like vanilla destiny when NONE of the guns worked. i must have switched weapons every 10sec. i refuse to go NLB with a side arm or run to the last word again but nothing really feels good .

I see you've got more primary k's than special on all 3 characters & you're good with pulse rifles, scouts and shotguns. The good news is you probably don't have to change your game much at all if you don't want to. If you're a Clever Dragon user, the ammo nerf is bound to hurt though. People are making way too big a deal out of the special ammo situation. When playing 6v6 there's simply ammo all over the field and the delay for picking up a crate is minimal. It might slow you down a little if you consider it a must to run with, but that's all. It boils down to two questions: (1) need for special ammo, (2) range of engagement. For me, there is no ammo question....and most likely for you as well. I played sidearms all day long the other day to see how it would pan out. The most time I've put in on those since the original sidearm (Vestian Dynasty at 170 light) came out & Iron Wreath last year. I've got them all but had the most fun with Trespasser. Bottom line - the spawn with ammo perk sidearms offer still isn't enough so supplant shotguns for me most of the time. Shotguns are still a fantastic shut-down close quarters answer. Even pre-nerf I would normally ADS shotties for the range buff, so no change there for me. I'd also normally use them tactfully vs. rushing most of the time. With sidearms, they are great for follow up shots coming off grenade or primary damage. Depends on the situation. The truly BIG news is with hand cannons. They're far and away the big winner this time around, and I'm pretty sure they're going to be the next meta weapon class when all the dust settles. The good news is they're incredible for short to short-mid range. On small maps they're going to be a great option. If you like to rush they're going to be a great option. The bad news is.......if you're not use them you're gonna have to learn. You can still keep folks at arms length with your scouts (in particular) and pulse rifles though, so they definitely still have a strong position. I used my scouts same as always on larger maps, highly effective mid to mid-long range like always. No change. Short version - go with what you know........plus get decent with a hand cannon & maybe a sidearm if you absolutely can't deal with finding special ammo on the field more often.

- Use the Wormwood / means use the meta weapons and do not stick to anything which has been nerfed. - Use different weapons (Palindrom, Mida, Hawksaw, Unbent Tree, Parthian Shot) on different maps - AR have got only a very small buff, you will loose a lot of gun fights against decent HC or Pulse players. (My personal experiences ). - Go on patrol on Venus or Kosmodrom before you use a new weapon or loadout and switch between your different weapons during patrol. - Watch youtubers and how they move around different maps. Movement is key. - Stick to your team mates, do not run alone over the map. - Look at the lobby - if you see a fire team with more than two guardians in it - leave it, until your are more confident with your new weapons. This approach helped me to have much more fun in pvp.