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1/31/2017 10:29:04 PM
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There were 2 options to 'expand weapon diversity'.
1. Remove elemental damage from all primaries.
2. Give all primaries a way to have elemental damage.
They went with the boring way.
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The 3rd option is revamp the entire armor gun and loot system to make it more like WoW or some other MMO to the point where diversity is enough to allow for a trade system.
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Your first part has nothing to with what he said. For the second part about trading, that would be absolutely terrible as well as it sounds nice. Everyone would have whatever is desired because their friend got two and the receiving person didn't have to do a damn thing for It.
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You should read my post I made recently about a new system. It would ensure no two things were the same 99% of the time at least
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https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/221721323/0/0 It doesn't cover everything down to a T because that would be an insanely long post but let me know what you think. I believe you could implement my idea in such a way that almost every weapon or armor piece you get could be different.
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And their option didn't even work. I have three primaries that I use 98% of the time. Not joking.
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Editado por TheArtist: 2/1/2017 12:54:14 PMIf no one is special, then no one is special. If everyone is special, then no one is special. End result is the same. If you want build diversity----mandatory for the long term health and replayability of a game like this----you can't have one tier of weapon that is CLEARLY the "best in slot" because it gives a damage buff to a player with no compensating trade offs. Players will always choose that weapon....and then the Sandbox gets lopsided...and the game winds up having to be tuned to the expected presence of that weapon..... ...and then no one is special any more. The elemental primary just becomes a set of Golden Handcuffs that you wind up getting forced to play with .
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Ok we're talking solely about PvE here right? Right. When there were elemental primaries we had the Golden Handcuffs because these were the 'best in slot'. Agreed. Now the Golden Handcuffs have changed to Genesis Chain, Zhalo, GR Imago because these are the best, except they're one, no Two steps down from those excellent elemental primaries we used to have. My Conclusion: yes people will always equip the best weapons, the only difference now is that those weapons are mediocre/inferior to the elemental primaries we used to love.
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Problem though. The only one of those weapons I have is Zhalo, and I seldom use it. People will always equip the best weapon IF there is one. In a well-designed system there is no single best weapon or best weapon in a particular situation. That's how you promote and preserve build diversity. But that environment is always going to frustrate the player who identifies with having the game's "best" gear.
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I guess that's one way to avoid the handcuffs is not get the best gear and just play with whatever you have. I have all the best PvE weapons, I guess just from playing enough, and when I get a weapon that stands above the others I gravitate towards it. Those are the ones I obviously want to use over the others. There's currently a handful of weapons now that stand out, but not the way those great elemental primaries did. The game is less fun now because of this IMHO.
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In a properly designed game, there IS no "best gear". Because you have a diverse enough armory that everyone is able to find things that perform the best for them....and those things are different for each player. Year One when Gjallarhorn was clearly the best-and-most-powerful weapon in the game? Game design mistake. Recognized it right away when Bungie's weapon designers said, "Oh we set out to design a weapon that as a "nuke". My first reaction on hearing that was, "Oh shit, that explains it...."
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Destiny is a looter based game. The loot from endgame has to be better than normal to maintain interest in the raids and other endgame activities. I haven't run WOTM or Kingsfall more than 10 times between the 2 of them because there's nothing special to grind for. There is nothing wrong with raid weapons being better for pve. Kinetic weapons and exotics still dominated pvp. So you had different set of guns for different occasions. What's wrong with that?
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Yes there is when you have a game with the massive participation barriers that Destiny's raids have. Better to piss off the 1% of hardcore players who raid regularly, than the 10-20% who play regularly that don't. Destiny doesn't have only one end game. It has [i]several [/i] different end games. Raiding is the end game for those players who like 6 player co-op play. The Division tried your approach, and wound up with a game that a tiny number of super hardcore players loved to grind away at for hours everyday. The problem was it was a game that [i]nobody else[/i] enjoyed or wanted to play. Bad business strategy.
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The reason why the division's approach didn't work was because those raid weapons were better for both pvp and pve. And with those powerful weapons they get from the raids , the hardcore players can kill other players and still their loot, thereby making even pve unpleasant for casual players. Destiny isn't the division. Elemental weapons only have an advantage when a burn or match game is active, they aren't anything special in pvp and destiny doesn't allow you to attack other players in pve.
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Forever 29.
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I think I have the gist of what you're saying but something tells me the 'properly designed game' you're talking about is a pipe dream. All weapons would have to be great as opposed to mediocre. I'm just saying it's a tall order and I doubt Bungie is capable of accomplishing that. I think they've been trying but what we're left with is a lackluster game compared with how things used to be, elemental primaries helped make it better. IMHO.
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Editado por TheArtist: 2/1/2017 10:15:44 PMNot a pipe dream. But Destiny makes that process much harder than it needs to be because Bungie: 1. Is over-reliant on gear for power-progression. There has been no meaningful additions to the Character Skill Tree in almost a year-and-a-half. So any and all new player powers have to come from gear. Usually new exotics. 2. Forces PVE and PVP to share the same gear system. So PvE power-progression is subjected to (from a PVE perspective) RANDOM nerfs that interrupt the power progression. With the result----after over 2 years of all the games weapons being systematically nerfed into the ground-----our Guardians in PVE are significantly weaker then they were in Year One. So now, the Ghorn that was the game-breaking monster of Year ONe that was overused because it was an OP, "nuke"....in Year 3 is still being over-used because every other rocket launcher in the game has been nerfed into the ground for the sake of "pvp balance". ...and so now its the only one that is worth the effort of equipping. The situation is so bad that I was running the Light 320 strike playlist (as light 397)...and was doing the Boss fight in the new Omingul strike. It took TWO rockets from a light 399 Titanium Orchid to kill that Ogre that spawns up in that old cheese spot above doorway into the boss room....and IT ISN'T EVEN A -blam!-ING MAJOR!!! In Year One, that Ogre would have been toast with one rocket. That's why people aren't excited about the game's weapons in PVE. Its because they've been stupidly emasculated for PVP. Not because Bungie got rid of elemental primaries.
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I think you're right that Bungie has emasculated the good weapons for PvP's sake. Introducing emasculated elemental primaries won't bring us back to Year 1 glory, I believe it would help a great deal though. Or they could just buff weapons to make them all equally good, but from what I can tell this is more complicated so I don't think Bungie is capable or willing to undertake this.
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If you think it will. Just follow the problems that The Division is having. Massive and Red Storm keep trying to introduce gear into the game that just gives sort of straight-up damage buffs that elemental primaries did in Year One Destiny..... ...and they keep having to take them out of the game, or nerf them into the ground.....because everyone keeps running around with the same builds. If you give players power/damage with NO trade-offs...they are always going to choose it over anything else. Which is poison to a loot-based game. Because you either relegate everything else in that slot to "trash tier"....or you get runaway power creep.
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I played Division up until Underground, been more or less keeping up with changes but haven't found a reason to play again. The upcoming patch 1.6 takes away loss of DZ exp + funds unless you're rogue, which is nice imo but at this point too little too late.
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That...and they keep just adding new game modes rather than doing anything to advance the story or the game world. So things are starting to get pretty stale on the PVE side of things.
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You mean like the matador in crucible or the Gjallahorn in PVE? You're right. We have great diversity.
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Elemenatal primaries were a game design mistake. What you're talking about is a sandbox management/game-tuning mistake. Separate issues. Ghorn dominates becasuse all the game's other rocket launchers have been nerfed to the point of uselessness. Matador dominates in PVP, because other shotguns have been nerfed to uselessness, and primaries are absurdly underpowered at the moment. Because the game has been managed by a Sandbox team that deliberately tried to SLOW DOWN play by weakening weapons and raising kill times. Which only accomplished making the play more stilted and unbalanced. ...and LIMITED options because players got handed tools to use that were not up to the tasks they needed to perform with them.
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Bungie favors anything that will extend the grind factor.
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Option 3 is to make 'elemental cores', obtainable only from endgame loot but applicable to all legendary guns a thing. Then there is a sense of progression, elemental weapons are special and worth something, but gear variety isn't impacted.
