There is always a chance I am thinking too deeply into it, but every explanation I see for vision 47 feels oversimplified. Keeping in mind the profoundly deep themes presented in Destiny (namely the nature of life, its creation, and its purpose), It occurs to me that this grimoire card could be about something more; The curse (or curses) of existence. Curses are mentioned many times throughout the lore, not to mention Destiny lore is littered with gnostic, hindu, and other similar theistic allusion. So right up the alley of what I'm talking about. It took me a long time (and an unreal amount of research) to think of three things that make sense in the context of this card, so let me know what you think about this.
DISCLAIMER:
I won't go into WHY creation is cursed, only what I think said curses are. The "why" of it, while interesting, is too much for one forum post and would probably be better served as its own topic of discussion.
Vision 47 is about the 3 curses imbued into all creation, and those curses are:
1.) Time
2.) Hunger
3.) Causality
Before I explain, here is the grimoire for reference:
The first comes in a shadow.
A window becomes a door.
An ebb becomes a gulf.
The second comes in bones.
Tithes offering feasts, carrying laws.
A path torn, minds shattered.
The third does not come alone. It cannot.
Our truths woven into their being, desires beyond our own.
The first needs the second to fail, the third needs the first to succeed.
The second will never cease, yet the first always prevails. The third is born of all outcomes.
Unless, all ends flow from the same pit.
1.)Time
"The first" being time is the one I'm most confident about. Aside from time being a primary theme in this game, look at the syntax and word choice used here. The "window becomes a door" part should be pretty obvious; you look through a window, but you step through a door. In the lore, characters use methods to peer into different periods of time (FWC's machine, thanatonauts). In ghost fragment: Rasputin 4, Rasputin asks what is presumably the stranger to "teach him how to step", which almost certainly pertains to stepping across/through time/timelines (given the context of the rest of the conversation in that card).
In general discussion, time is typically compared to some form of water (most commonly a river). A good example of this is the relatively common phrase "the ebb and flow of time". Also of note, the flavor text on the exotic hand cannon "The First Curse" says "[The first curse] is when death becomes an afterthought". Clear reference to immortality, which is a result of "stepping through the door" of time (Guardians should immediately come to mind). And judging by some of the exo grimoire cards, living forever to fight an eternal struggle with no rest may not be the greatest thing.
2.) Hunger
Keep in mind, "hunger" can manifest in many different ways; survival, desire, ambition, affection. Hunger is mentioned many, many times in Destiny and always with a negative connotation. Given that "hunger" is often referenced in relation to the Ahamkara, it's no surprise that bones are mentioned in vision 47. Ahamkara speak through their bones, and always seem to speak to the desires of the listener. Almost like a sort of temptation. "Offering FEASTS" to satisfy that hunger for power, longer life, etc.
The last part is an obvious reference to Toland, who let his hunger for knowledge get the better of him. It consumed him, ultimately leading to his death.
Side note: Ghost fragment: Exo 3 mentions that "survival is a curse". Pretty profound thought, and actually kept me up at night pondering existence. Anyway, it's not hard to grasp hunger as being a metaphor for survival. It's a fairly common metaphor.
3.) Causality
This was the difficult one, but I finally landed on causality as "the third" in vision 47. Causality can be a difficult thing to wrap one's head around, but it is something that has always interested me. My boy Oryx pondered causality a few times in the books of sorrow, more or less to acknowledge that the system of cause and effect present in our reality serves to enslave the will. A curse.
Cause cannot come without effect, and effect cannot come without cause. That is the nature of causality; It cannot come alone. It is the born of all outcomes, meaning every outcome of anything is simultaneously the effect of said outcome/cause of next outcome.
The word "acausal" is mentioned a few times in the plot, usually when dealing with one of the more powerful things in destiny. I mean, escaping causality would mean defeating death. So the curse of causality may be escapable, and I feel like it's a much larger part of the plot than it seems. Guardians seem to also have some measure of control over causality.
Side note:
The flavor text on light beyond nemesis is an interesting thing to google that relates to causality.
Here's the fun part! Relating the three:
The first needs the second to fail, the third needs the first to succeed.
The second will never cease, yet the first always prevails. The third is born of all outcomes.
My way:
Time needs hunger to fail, causation needs time to succeed.
Hunger will never cease, yet time always prevails. Causation is born of all outcomes.
The first (Time) needs the second (hunger) to fail. This is because everything in a realm of time must end, but everything in a realm of time also hungers to exist. This hunger to escape time, and therefore death, MUST FAIL otherwise time is irrelevant. This applies to everything, not just lifeforms. Stars hunger for fuel, and will eventually succumb to entropy and "die".
In ghost fragment: darkness 2, it is stated that "no sun complains about its death. Life is the problem". I imagine self-aware life does indeed cause a unique problem for the curse of time. Although all that exists has "hunger", this type of life is the only thing with the means to overcome time and exist indefinitely.
Causation needs time to succeed. Causation can only exist in a realm of time, where everything has a beginning and end. Birth is the first link and death is the last link in the chain of causality; This is without exception, and applies to everything that exists. Which brings me to the next part....
Hunger never ceases, but time always wins. As stated earlier, hunger in any form is the hallmark of existence. However, all types of hunger will inevitably succumb to time and therefore death. This one isn't too difficult to grasp.
Causation is born of all outcomes. No matter what happens, everything in the realm of causation is an effect of previous events and a cause for future events. All outcomes lead to an effect/cause.
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4 RespuestasEditado por WBU39: 12/3/2016 8:37:00 PMIsnt it widely suspected that it's talking about the Vex, the Hive and the Guardians? [i][u]"First comes in a shadow"[/u][/i] Guardians come after the Traveler is crippled and settles over the City, it's shadow casting over it. It could just be metaphorical, we come in its shadow. [i][u]"The second comes in bones- Tithes offering feasts, carrying laws- A path torn, mind shattered"[/u][/i] Look at the Hive, what do they look like? What are they made of? Bones. Tithes offering feasts, carrying laws? Sounds a lot like the system Oryx keeps his worm fed, and the laws? Sword Logic. Shattered mind, torn paths? Definitely seems like the process of being taken. [i][u]"Third does not come alone, it cannot- Our truths wowen into their being, desires beyond our own"[/u][/i] This plays into the theory that the Vex are/or were created by humans in another timeline. We already know they have the capability to basically make space-time their bitch, so it's not really that unlikely. Our truths wowen into their being? The Vex and Humanity absolutely have something to do with each other. "The first needs the second to fail, the third needs the first to succeed. The second will never cease, yet the first always prevails. The third is born of all outcomes" [i][u]"The first one needs the second to fail--"[/u][/i] The Guardians need the Hive to fail, maybe to destroy the Traveler on the Ammonite home moon, or on the Eliksni homeworld. [i][u]The second will never cease, yet the first one always prevails[/u][/i] The Hive will never cease. They're already pretty much wowen into the fabric of reality with Oryx and his Sword Logic. The darkness within the larvae that lives inside the three sisters will never die, it will never cease and live on forever. But yet, maybe it's written in the stars millions of years ago, the Light and the Guardians will always win. [i][u]--The third needs the first to succeed-- The third is born of all outcomes[/u][/i] The Vex need us to succeed. Why? Because we go on to create them. They could fight the Hive, they've done it when Crota accidentally let them into the throne world. It took the Vex mear moments to create a mind that knew and understood the laws of Oryx's reality. [i][u]Unless, all ends flow from the same pit[/i][/u] Unless...none of it matters because when it comes down to it, the battle between the Light and the Darkness is so massive in scope, that even our Universe is just a pawn.
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4 RespuestasEditado por TeslaDoc: 12/3/2016 4:47:36 AMIt would be so nice if they could put this stuff in the game as cutscenes. Like flashbacks or remembered dreams when you pick up a dead ghost or calcified fragment or whatever. Then you could use your Grimoire as a reference when you are not playing. C'mon Bungie. EDIT: Even sound files, drawings, computer printouts or diagrams would be cool. Just something.
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1 RespuestaI've heard theories relating the card to raid bosses, but never to abstract ideas. Thanks for sharing!
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1 RespuestaVery nice post and a really cool spin on this card and what it refers to. Time and Causality were excellent, I have more issues with hunger but just because it's almost impossible in the context of Destiny not to separate hunger from the Hive. Also Toland isn't technically dead, he's acendant.
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1 RespuestaPerhaps I missed something. When you talk about causality, you don't elaborate on the phrase "Our truths woven into their being, desires beyond our own." "Their" as a plural adjective is incompatible with "causality" as an individual noun. I have my own opinion on how to make it fit, but I'm curious about your thoughts on it first.
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1 RespuestaWay to think outside the box
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1 RespuestaThanks for the great read. I love it when people give their interpretations of the lore it really helps me understand the complex lore
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3 RespuestasThis is some real academic warlock level analysis on this, man. Good job!
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1 RespuestaI very much appreciated reading this, thank you.
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1 RespuestaAwesome sauce
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3 RespuestasThis makes me sad
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2 RespuestasGood stuff!! Very enjoyable read. Funny how the vex kept popping back into my head while I read this....
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1 RespuestaYou write well
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1 RespuestaThat is a very interesting theory. A new and unique way of looking at the card. What do you think about the last line though? Unless all ends come from the same pit.
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Someone please explain everything he just said in English pls. What's vision 47?
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7 RespuestasWell it's pretty obvious it involves the vex and the hive dear. Windows and door ways can refer to the vex gate ways, the second comes in bone is obviously hive. The all outcomes part could refer to Oryx, considering that was his goal, but it makes us wonder who is the third?
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1 RespuestaDon't forget that time is just another dimension. Only our one way view requires sequential causality.
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3 RespuestasBump and you get some cookies 🍪 🍪 🍪 🍪 🍪 🍪 🍪 🍪 🍪 🍪 🍪 🍪 🍪 🍪 🍪
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Eventhough my IQ is around 3 times my shoesize i dont see any connection between grimoire and overall understanding of what you are trying to explain mate. Let me get my coffee first before i go into this Stephen Hawking thing
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5 RespuestasI read 100% of this...
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4 RespuestasMy opinion is that the 1 is the gurdiands the 2 is the hive and the 3 is the vex
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4 RespuestasJust to let you know when Rasputin was talking to that person it was the stranger and he said she was not one of his as he was in charge of the exo project yet she is an exo