Every one of those games you mentioned has struggled with lag and disconnects. Maybe not for you, but somebody else has/does suffer. Go ahead and google them with the terms if you don't believe it. Bad latency is primarily caused from traveling long distances. Somebody somewhere is always going to be too far from a host to be perfectly stable. It is just a fact of life on the internet.

I am 100% confident to say that 90% of there playerbase has no issues at all, and tbh i believe even more have no issues. Played Battlefield nearly 40h in playtime and not once i had an issue or the lobby i played. 64 players btw I agree that disconnect can happen, no game is perfect. But Destiny's Matchmaking is so strikt and hard torwards players that i even couldn't play with my buddy. He lives 5miles away from me. Took him a lot of trouble shooting and money to play even Crucible without getting kicked after 1-3 min. He plays Battlefield fluid with 64players, he plays Division without any issue He plays Cod without any issue And so on. Destiny 2 needs to change there netcode and give us dedicated servers. What buggles my mind is why ppl are defending p2p connection and Weasel errors. Companys do what they want and make big Bank with us consumers. So were is the issue to say, we want almost lag/latenzy free PvP. I don't get it

Simple. There are also tons of players of Destiny that have no issues. Like myself. I rarely have problems that can't be resolved by my ISP...and when I am having such problems it usually isn't just Destiny having issues.

Idk since when you play Destiny. But this topic with Red bar/latenzy/disconnects exists since y1 The topic with Sbmm and Cbmm is going on since the SRL update last year. Since this update it got worse for everyone. Maybe in the US it is less noticeable, but i don't believe that because my Clan is from Us and we all agree. Idk why you debate here with me about an issue the majority of the playerbase experience on a daily bases. Idk why you try so hard to defend this.

Because I've seen the same trend for over 20 years. There are always people both plagued as well as not affected by bad latency and packet loss regardless of the models in play. It is a systemic problem with the internet in general, and it gets amplified when it is pushed out on the world stage. Even games with dedicated regional servers struggle with it for years on end. The people best equipped to deal with the lag/disconnects when people are within a reasonable distance to expect more stable sessions would be the ISP's involved....but hardly anyone even bothers to put the pressure on them to investigate the issue. I and a handful of friends in our area have done just that and we regularly see progress on the issues we present to them. As such, I continue to have fewer issues with services than most others.

Dude with all that being said you can't deny that while the connection issues you listed may be commonly experienced in all online games Destiny has suffered more severely and consistently/inconsistently with connection issues than most since launch.

Just a question dude? Did you experience Y1 Destiny connections in Normal PvP and Trials of Osiris?

No. I started in the spring, after I dropped XIV after 3 years. The symptoms here are near identical to what we saw with matchmaking there. As well as a handful of other games I have played over the years. Latency is a hard thing to deal with when you are trying to do things on the world stage, regardless of the genre or hosting model in play. Distance traveled puts a hard limit on things that you simply can't get away from.

False and sorry dude, for me the discussion with you on this topic is over. I appreciate your know how about servers and stuff but you didn't experience how Destiny y1 connection was in some cases. We can talk but i won't take you serious anymore. If you have time. Pls go around on this Forum and ask players how the connection was in y1 normal Crucible and Trials of Osiris in comparisson to the current state of Matchmaking. Night and Day difference. Have a good day

And that is why discussions go nowhere, and we can't effect proper change. If you can't acknowledge the simple fact that there are people that can use the current system just fine, and that it might be due to something other then just one aspect of the netcode or matchmaking that may have an alternative solution than just removing that one aspect...then I guess there is no point even having a discussion anymore about it then. It is unfortunate too....because that seems to be the stance a lot of people tend to take on the forums these days. Just when we think we might be homing in on a problem and possible compromise/solution, people leave the table. Good luck out there.

Look i am trying to explain it as simple as possible. If you would have played Destiny since the beginning. (I play Destiny since the alpha back in 2013) then you would not defend or argue a second on this topic. Destiny is i think on of the Games with the most trade kills compared to any other FPS game. That makes no fxxking sense. Not even on old Cod or Battlefield games you could trade constantly because the latency is so bad and the tick rate of the servers. Trials was crispy as fxxk in every way, maybe all 8-10 games you had one guy with a little lag. Now it just terrible in some cases and absolutlie unplayable. For a big game like Destiny that is unacceptable Normal Crucible the same compared to now, fxxking connection was crispy. It just buggles my Mind that you come to the forum and answer on ppl posts without the experience ppl like me made the last 2 and half years with Destiny. And really try to defend a broken system what doesn't work at all most of the time. Players like me are just asking for Dedicated Servers with high tick rate and Ddos free and lagswitch free lobbies. What is wrong with that? Nothing because we just wana enjoy the Game we Love and play for so long. However, this is going nowhere this discussion with you. You are defend this system and most of the playerbase is against it.

The point is it plays just fine for myself and others. It is old hat. People with good latency and no packet loss appear to be fine. Those with less stable routes are not. I'm not the only one to state that either, by the way. The problem is such information is rarely disclosed up front, but quite often as we dig deeper we eventually discover that to be a major contributing factor. And the forums generally are the minority of the player base. Even if it is actually a majority of those who are actively posting here, it still does not necessarily represent it being a majority of the player base. Year one, two, or three is not the issue...if it runs stable for someone it runs stable for them. The big question is what is different between the two camps. In your case you are in Europe playing a game that is rooted in the US, and you are bound to synching every 100ms with servers over here that are likely over 100ms away. You cannot deny that has a potential impact. Especially with the shoddy state if our oversold and overloaded infrastructure.

Y1 and Y2 matters a lot espezially when it comes to Trials of Osiris. And of course are ppl who have no issue, no doubt about that. But they are also the minority. And true, most players don't go to Forums and share there opinion. Because a Normal Casual who experiences this issues in a pvp game are Not coming back. They move on to the next game. If it would be so good how you esay, this topic wouldn't be talked at all. Fact is, plenty of games have no lag in comparisson to Destiny. And Again, Where is the issue with a matchmaking system what prefers connection only? I don't get it Why you try to convince ppl that the connection is fine when it is not. I pay fxxking 100$ montly for a 250down25up Internet, and i can't get games without a Teleporting Titan or a flying Hunter. From your Logic, it's not Bungies terrible netcode and slow Tick rate of the Servers! That makes No sense at all. If this would be true, we couldn't play Any Online Game without lag. Fact is, with SBMM in the Background, the poll of players you can match get's pretty pretty small. Result is, i match a player from Italy a player from Germany, a player from England, 2 players from Australia, a player from Canada, a player from the Emirates and so on. Were is the point in this system when it punishes the lobby with this random selection around the World. And when you Really believe that this is an europen only problem then you are totaly wrong. A lot of Us players i know and play with since day one, are experiencing the same issues over and over again. Friends of me left the game or don't even touch pvp because of this issue. And other buddie don't wana play with me pvp because i have a higher elo score then him, because of that We play against ppl who are way better then him. Result, he get's crushed like a fly and leaves don't wana play anymore. Issue here, you can't play for fun with casual friends and just chill and have fun. The next thing what buggles a lot players is the fact and sadness that We aren't Against Skill based Matchmaking. But do it in the Ranked playlist. And give us a Social playlist with connection based Matchmaking. We are not asking for World peace, we are just asking for something what is Normal in any fps game the last couple years 90% lag free games. Dedicated Servers with a High Tick rate

[quote]Y1 and Y2 matters a lot espezially when it comes to Trials of Osiris. And of course are ppl who have no issue, no doubt about that. But they are also the minority. And true, most players don't go to Forums and share there opinion. Because a Normal Casual who experiences this issues in a pvp game are Not coming back. They move on to the next game. If it would be so good how you esay, this topic wouldn't be talked at all. Fact is, plenty of games have no lag in comparisson to Destiny. And Again, Where is the issue with a matchmaking system what prefers connection only? I don't get it Why you try to convince ppl that the connection is fine when it is not. I pay fxxking 100$ montly for a 250down25up Internet, and i can't get games without a Teleporting Titan or a flying Hunter. From your Logic, it's not Bungies terrible netcode and slow Tick rate of the Servers! That makes No sense at all. If this would be true, we couldn't play Any Online Game without lag. Fact is, with SBMM in the Background, the poll of players you can match get's pretty pretty small. Result is, i match a player from Italy a player from Germany, a player from England, 2 players from Australia, a player from Canada, a player from the Emirates and so on. Were is the point in this system when it punishes the lobby with this random selection around the World. And when you Really believe that this is an europen only problem then you are totaly wrong. A lot of Us players i know and play with since day one, are experiencing the same issues over and over again. Friends of me left the game or don't even touch pvp because of this issue. And other buddie don't wana play with me pvp because i have a higher elo score then him, because of that We play against ppl who are way better then him. Result, he get's crushed like a fly and leaves don't wana play anymore. Issue here, you can't play for fun with casual friends and just chill and have fun. The next thing what buggles a lot players is the fact and sadness that We aren't Against Skill based Matchmaking. But do it in the Ranked playlist. And give us a Social playlist with connection based Matchmaking. We are not asking for World peace, we are just asking for something what is Normal in any fps game the last couple years 90% lag free games. Dedicated Servers with a High Tick rate[/quote] You are sort of answering your own questions about the latency factor being a problem. As I stated in another post in this side conversation as well as a post one level up last night...location seems to be presenting itself more and more as a key factor for those having issues. You yourself just admitted you have issues when matched with people overseas, and the same goes with your friends--that applies on all sides. The question is, why do you get matched overseas when others don't? OK... so if that overseas selection is bound entirely to the SBMM component, then why? What about their SBMM/CBMM components are causing that to happen? Perhaps THAT would be a better point to focus on? Bungie has pretty much dug their heals in on this issue to the point it likely isn't going anywhere soon....so why can there be no compromise? Is there no possibility that they may find a way to remove the bad latency from your and your friends particular pools when filtering? Has that simple question not hit anybody yet? Bad latency is a factor. Period. One of the primary causes for bad latency is distance traveled. It can be identified fairly easily in a variety of ways--you don't have to ping someone to know they are going to have a high natural latency factor to begin with. Then other factors can stack on that...namely factors that cause congestion and/or packet loss. But it should be a simple enough process to filter out the bulk of that base distance determined latency. The question is, will Bungie be willing to take the dramatic steps necessary to do that? That remains to be seen. Perhaps if more people presented that angle more often in these posts, it might gain some traction....but so long as everyone is clambering to just get it removed it likely won't go anywhere. Bungie will likely keep it, probably tweak it, but not with any meaningful tweaks that address this issue that appears to be bound heavily to geolocation. Then there is a problem with the environment in general that we are trying to work in as well. Our reliance on the web grows by leaps and bounds. It has been known to quadruple in 4 and 5 year periods. It is currently projected to triple by 2020 by some reports. Smart phone web usage is also skyrocketing and is expected to take over PC traffic soon as well. Overall, we are about to cross the Zettabyte threshold in consumption--and expectied to cross the 2ZB mark not long after that. The rapid expansion in consumption is regularly destabilizing the web in general...it is a hot mess that the ISP's are just struggling to keep up and running in some regions. All of this is causing a major shift in the environment. This is a different landscape and environment than Y1 and even Y2. The game as well as the internet has evolved to a different state....likely not to return anytime soon. The sooner people can get past that, perhaps we can move on to better identifying just where the root causes of our problems are instead of trying to slap band-aids on everything to treat the symptoms, or digging in the heals trying to get things back to the "glory days" of the first year of the game. Bungie has moved on for a reason, and knowing them, they are not likely to return anytime soon. In the meantime, perhaps it would be better to work within the framework of the direction they are taking the game. A large part of that effort could and should start by providing useful information. As was asked, explain why you want it changed. For example, in your case it could simply be because you are an EU player and don't want to be matched with people overseas that have unstable connectivity--it destroys gameplay quality for you when it happens. Even the simplest response along those lines provides them direction...a focus they may be able to get behind and find a solution for within the existing framework. Sometimes you can make more progress working within the confines of a system than when you continually fight against it flat out.

Jesus -_- I don't know how many times i have to say this, but this is The Last Time. DESTINY IS THE ONLY GAME WITH THIS TERRIBLE CONNECTION COMPARED TO EVERY OTHER MAJOR FPS GAME OUT THERE. IT IS THE ONLY GAME THAT FORCES PPL TO PLAY PPL FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD. There are also plenty of streamers and YouTubers who bought a NetDuma Router, and this thing tells you the exact place of every player in your lobby and the Ping to every player. And the results are fxxking shocking. SBMM needs to goooooo And if they want SBMM then bring it in the Ranked playlist but with Dedicated servers. You can't blaim peoples Internet for getting matched against players around the World. And Again, Even then It should not be that laggy at all. I can Play Titanfall with my Us friends with no fxxking lag/latenzy issue. I can play Battlefield 1 with my Us friends on a 64players Server without any issues. It is not the traffics issue, It is matchmaking. If your Logic is Correct, then we couldn't play Any Multiplayer game without lag. But that is not true. Battlefield proof, Titanfall proof, even Cod has fxxking better p2p connection then Destiny. However, my head hurts reading all the defense against sbmm. If you wana talk with ppl and Proof your point, then Please write and start avThreat on this forum and have fun. But you won't find much players who will share your thoughts here.

No, it isn't the only game. Maybe the only game YOU have played. But it ISN'T the only game. You don't have to have a netduma to figure out where people you connect with our located....I can do it with my Asus router just fine. And they are pretty much almost always in the eastern half of the US, where my latency is usually best. And it isn't "defense". It is detailing a different perspective of the situation you don't seem to be grasping very well. And there are many who share the same perspective because it is a real and proven issue that many have had to deal with for a living.

The only game i have played, really? Then go and look up my psn Please. However this got to a point were it brings anything. You are arguing with me over 2 days now and you telling me how great your connection is in Destiny. Clap Clap Clap to you that you are so lucky and you should be happy about it. But not come here and try to convince ppl that There connection issue has an other problem then Bungies Matchmaking system. My experience and a big chunk of the Community who has the same issues are Vocal about it and it will change with time. So pls go around amd argue with someone else or start your own Topic Please with all your points you writed me since yesterday. And have fun reading

No... The only game you are experiencing lag with. I hear that argument all the time...and countless times someone has shown them how it can be cleaned up and they manage to do so. Sometimes it takes more effort to effect the needed changes, but it happens far more than most people think is possible. We even had some success over there with BT and some of it's spin-offs. Understanding what you are dealing with is half the battle, so you can stand your ground and call their bluff. Was always fun to see the egg on their face when we demonstrated the problem for them. VPN's are handy diagnostic tools sometimes...hehe. And yes, I do enjoy my lower latency. Just pulled up the net stats and looked at where I was swapping data with: NY, NJ, MD, PA, NC (5 actually)...one oddball in Wasington. Redmond in fact, which was amusing considering I went with Sony to get away from Microsoft some. That bugger was the bad one clocking in in the 70's too, but the gameplay was still just fine. Everyone else was really tight, 30-50ms response times. It didn't used to be that good until about 2 years ago when I spent a lot of time with my ISP both locally and in Herndon, VA tracking down issues with their peering for my connections to XIV--which were atrocious at launch. Since then, I can maintain low latency all the way up into Montreal...pinged an XIV lobby server just now for 45/47 from down here in South Carolina. Again...a lot of the problems (not just matchmaking, but the lag situation in general) seem to be stemming from the distance between everyone and the latency bound to that. If they could address that issue (which really should fall more in the realm of the network filters then the player stats filtering), it would likely solve a lot of the problems. That is less of SBMM issue and more of a CBMM issue....one that could still persist if SBMM was taken completely out of the picture. As for the debate going on...it persists because you challenged the correction I made on your post, and then seemed to want to debate the points made. It seems like you are having trouble accepting the true nature of an underlying problem that will persist regardless of the matchmaking. If not for one player, it will for another. It is an unfortunate side effect of not being able to put servers close enough to everyone who wants to play. Some compromises have to be made. ATM it seems they have compromised a bit too much and need to revisit policy a bit---but they need to have a better understanding of just what those underlying problems may actually be. Digging in the heels and saying things like "every other game is just fine, it isn't my internet....it is Destiny" and shouting over and over to remove SBMM because you have laggy/sweaty games does nothing to point them in any direction for actually troubleshooting. Unfortunately, everyone keeps jumping on the bandwagon, bumping the same thing over and over...and not enough real info is coming through. Hopefully if anyone is following this thread, they may come to a better understanding of such concepts....who knows. People simply need to be providing Bungie with more specific details as to what is going wrong with their matchmaking so they can take a proper look into what can be done to alleviate the stress people have over the current state of the game.

All you tell me is, if i get matched against Us/Asien/african/Australien players. ( iAM from Europe) then it's normal to have lag! Right? Ah of course you will have lag and that is Destiny biggest issue. In one lobby you will have at least 4-6 different Countries. That should not happen. And even then, even then it should not be that bad how it is. Unplayable, a Red bar who is basicly unkillable from 4 players in a Fireteam. Has adventage like he is good. You say that you see this issue for about 20 years. Just weird since i have Nat type 1 i never had any Issues with an online Game. Only Destiny causes those issues.