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9/19/2016 3:49:39 AM
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Yes, because they were Jews, God's chosen people at the time.
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So now Jews can't go to heaven?
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Who said that? Straight Jews who don't believe in Christ can't, same as anyone else. No one is barred from heaven
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Ah. But they're no longer the [i]chosen people[/i]. So do Muslims and Jews get to go to heaven for believing Jesus was a prophet? Or only if he was the savior? They all believe in the same God do they not?
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Technically they are, but everyone can go to heaven now. And no, they can't. Jews straight up crucified Jesus, believing he was a false prophet, and Muslims think he was just a prophet. In both of those cases he is not the savior through which they must be saved to go into heaven.
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Editado por xD King Rush Dx: 9/19/2016 2:13:03 PMSo believing in Jesus is your prerequisite to heaven? Why is believing in God not enough? Edit: further, why do the actions of one group of Jews prevent all Jews from going to heaven?
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God cannot look upon sin. Adam and Eve made everyone imperfect. God sent Jesus as the middle man. By accepting him we are cleansed of sin and are allowed entrance to heaven. And that's not why Jews can't go. My first statement right up there says why. I was just using that as an example to show they don't believe Jesus is the savior
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But wouldn't believing in God be sufficient enough? Why is Jesus a prerequisite when God is God? You always hear someone ask "do you believe in God?" Not "do you believe in Jesus?" Wouldn't believing in God be the prerequisite? Are you telling me that Jews and Muslims -- who believe in God (the same God, mind you, Abrahamic faiths and all) are [b][i]predestined[/i][/b] to not go to heaven?
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I don't believe in predestination. I've already explained why, to you and multiple others on this post. > God makes Adam and Eve as companions > They sin and fall from the Garden, becoming imperfect sinners > Old Testament stuff happens, Jews die and await in whatever you wanna call yhe prerequisite of heaven because their sins weren't cleaned > God can't look upon sin > I.e. sin can't enter heaven > tfw > God sends Jesus > Jesus is like "Yo man, I'm the ultimate teacher dude" > Jesus dies so he can act as the middle man and cleanse our sins > Jews in the Purgatory place go into heaven > feelsgoodman.jpg > to go to heaven you now must be cleansed through Jesus > Jews get mad and reject him > No more In between place > Jews start going to hell for the first time in forever > New religion called Christianity > God's new way to get into heaven for all people, including Gentiles
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So you're discrediting Judaism and Islam for not accepting Jesus as the savior? Yet they accept God? What if a Jew had not sinned? They wouldn't be worthy because they only believe in YHWH (God) and Jesus as a prophet?
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There can't really be an if there. No one can live their entire life and not sin.
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It's a perfect situation used as an example. Why does Christianity get to decide who does and does not go to heaven? If Anything, Judaism should get to decide as that is the original faith. Furthermore, which sect of Christianity is right? Is it Catholic, Protestant, Mormon, Calvinist?
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It only decides if you believe it technically, but it's not the religion who decides, it's Jesus who came. If Jews had accepted Jesus then we'd been having an entirely different conversation. As for what denomination is right, as long as it doesn't add to what the Bible says, it's right. Non-denominational is better than most at this point tbh, unless you can get a good contemperary-ish church
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But Jews accept God do they not? Further, how do you know if Christianity is correct? History, especially western, is only viewed through one biased perspective, so wouldn't that tie into why Jews and Muslims aren't allowed in heaven? Because according to thousands of years of Christians calling them "different" or "inferior"? If no denominations are correct how is non-denominational correct? Isn't non-denominational technically a denomination?
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Not really. I've already explained to you why they can't, you can look it up for yourself if you're not convinced. As for why I believe it is true, I couldn't be a Jew if I wanted to, and Muslims teach kill the infidels, so.. but that's not why. I honestly don't know why I believe, I can't give a concrete answer to that. I just do. Until about a year and a half ago it would only be because of how I was raised, but I had my faith crucible, and I've come through it.
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[quote]Not really. I've already explained to you why they can't, you can look it up for yourself if you're not convinced. As for why I believe it is true, I couldn't be a Jew if I wanted to, and Muslims teach kill the infidels, so.. but that's not why. I honestly don't know why I believe, I can't give a concrete answer to that. I just do. Until about a year and a half ago it would only be because of how I was raised, but I had my faith crucible, and I've come through it.[/quote] You've given the church's reason why they can't, which is extremely biased. Wouldn't the church have spread the word the only way for eternal happiness is to be Christian to gain followers? Would you not agree western history is incredibly biased towards Christianity? Furthermore, Muslims also have edicts stating that everyone is to respect people's of the book, which would include Zoroastrians, Jews, and Christians.
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Based on what you're saying, you believe God has let the Bible become perverted so that it only fits with Western culture beliefs. Therefore any argument I make for the Bible you will consider invalid. And in the case of America, obviously it is biased towards Christianity. The only reason America was colonized, willingly, was for Christian freedom. That doesn't justify the fact that the Muslims "holy" book states that they should kill people.
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God didn't want it to happen, but it did. I have an intriguing question for you. If there medieval popes believed in Jesus were they allowed to go to heaven? Even though many of them committed sins? How does one view a pope, the word of God on earth, if he sins and is corrupt? [spoiler]im honestly just asking you tough questions to gauge your responses [/spoiler]
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I disagree. I believe God does not allow the Bible to be perverted beyond what it should be, because if it was then there would be no logical reason to believe. That depends. One can't simply believe in Jesus, and while you do have to repent througj him, you can't just go back to a crappy existence after. Which is what a lot of them did. So it all depends on the person
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So the bible hasn't been perverted over time to fit the agendas of powerful people? So, an unjust pope would be able to go to heaven but a just Jew could not? Doesn't seem fair to me. If God truly was all powerful and forgiving wouldn't he allow all just people into heaven?
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They may twist words out of context to fit their agendas, but the Bible itself is as just as it has ever been. That goes back to my earlier statements again, lol. And going by works, what sin is worse than another? The Bible says all sins are equal in God's eyes.
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[quote]They may twist words out of context to fit their agendas, but the Bible itself is as just as it has ever been [b]there are many differences in the bible, especially due to translation. Further are you discounting the Old Testament?[/b] That goes back to my earlier statements again, lol. And going by works, what sin is worse than another? The Bible says all sins are equal in God's eyes. [b]you're not answering the question. Why does an unjust man who believes in Jesus allowed into heaven when a just man who does not isn't? Why is God not all forgiving? Isn't he supposed to be? Why is Jesus a prerequisite but God not? Why is God xenophobic? [/b] [/quote]
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Editado por Fabio the Senate: 9/20/2016 4:37:12 AMNew Testament, if it's spoken by Jesus, overrules Old Testament, but no I'm not discounting it And I did answer the question. The Bible says no sin is worse than another, therefore just and unjust are human constructs. All need forgiveness. And again, God cannot look upon sin. There is a Holy Trinity. Jesus is the part that is closest to humanity, therefore he is the prerequisite for heaven. Also, God is all forgiving.
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[quote]New Testament, if it's spoken by Jesus, overrules Old Testament, but no I'm not discounting it And I did answer the question. The Bible says no sin is worse than another, therefore just and unjust are human constructs. All need forgiveness. And again, God cannot look upon sin. There is a Holy Trinity. Jesus is the part that is closest to humanity, therefore he is the prerequisite for heaven. Also, God is all forgiving.[/quote] If God is all forgiving, why do I need to believe in him? Won't he just forgive me and allow me into heaven? If God can not look upon sin then how can he look upon his children on earth? Just and unjust are human constructs? How are they if they abide by morals set in Judaeo Christian values? So you're saying the Old Testament is null and void? Are you trying to erase the vengeful God that destroyed his children? And no, you didn't answer the question by talking about human constructions. An unjust man shouldn't be allowed into heaven for believing in Jesus yet, according to you, he would be over, say a Jew or Zoroastrian.
