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Editado por RavenousLD3341:
9/13/2016 2:00:10 PM
27
[b][u]J-Dub said:[/u][/b]
[quote]Goals:
Hand Cannons are optimal at close to medium range
Rewards agility under fire, precision targeting, and snap shots[/quote]
Source
[spoiler]https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/44577/7_Destiny-Weapon-Tuning--April-Update[/spoiler]
A random bullet angle on hand cannons does not "...Reward* agility under fire...." nor is it good for "...precision targeting..."
Also,
[quote]...low rate of fire hand cannons have a higher maximum possible range stat, giving players a distinct reason to choose that type of weapon.[/quote]
Wrong again. Longer range still makes this a 3 shot kill. My Devil You Know, and my Appellant III can also 3 shot guardians... and a hell of a lot faster. There is still no competitive reason to ever choose this archetype for PvP. 2-Headshot kill would do it FYI. So I'll leave these High impact HCs in PvE.... still.
There's a hundred ways to do this right, but randomly determining a hit or a miss by a dice roll in the back ground isn't good for competitive play, it's also not very fun.
and this......
[quote]When looking at Destiny weapon archetypes, we wanted players to be able to assume a weapon’s traits through visuals and an intuitive understanding of how weapons work.[/quote]
Is a terrible excuse for why you believe my bullets shouldn't go where I aim when in my handcannon's effective engagement range. I've carried many many weapons in real life, and i understand how weapons work. And when i get out my .44 swagnum with a 6 inch barrel, my bullets go where I am every time. So using my "understanding of how weapons work" i find it frustrating that i can do everything right with my Handcannon and still miss.
Tell the sandbox team i said
"Your move"
English
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Editado por Yoru: 9/13/2016 2:32:22 PM[quote]Wrong again. Longer range still makes this a 3 shot kill. My Devil You Know, and my Appellant III can also 3 shot guardians... and a hell of a lot faster. There is still no competitive reason to ever choose this archetype for PvP. 2-Headshot kill would do it FYI. So I'll leave these High impact HCs in PvE.... still. There's a hundred ways to do this right, but randomly determining a hit or a miss by a dice roll in the back ground isn't good for competitive play, it's also not very fun.[/quote] The higher the range stat, the smaller the cone is supposed to be. If you have a hand cannon that has literally 0 range the bullets will 95% of the time not go where you're actually aiming. If you have an eyasluna with rifled barrel and rangefinder the bullets will 99%+ of the time hit where your aiming. (Unless you're trying to snipe people from the edge of the map on Last Light with the hand cannon or something)
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Well a more accurate handcannon that kills much slower is not a distinct reason to select it.
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So what you're telling me is, unless the hand cannon has the perfect roll, it's worthless and shouldn't be used in pvp? That's bs. I could take a scout rifle with the crappiest perks possible and still get kills, and that shouldn't be that way. This bloom affect is terrible and needs removed. We are guardians. We are supposed to be masters of our weapons. Furthermore there is a very good video you should watch sometime of a youtuber using an eyasluna with rifled barrel at optimal hand cannon range and he was still missing shots. Even on the first bullet. This is stupid.
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The god roll handcannon I'm waiting on is Rangefinder/ Steady Hand IS/ Braced Frame/ and reactive reload or hidden hand.
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[quote] So what you're telling me is, unless the hand cannon has the perfect roll, it's worthless and shouldn't be used in pvp? [/quote] Yeah, pretty much. [quote] That's bs. I could take a scout rifle with the crappiest perks possible and still get kills, and that shouldn't be that way. This bloom affect is terrible and needs removed. We are guardians. We are supposed to be masters of our weapons. [/quote] That's the way they designed it, that being said you could take the crappiest handcannon in the game into crucible and still get kills with it, you won't have a good time doing it, but it's not impossible. [quote] Furthermore there is a very good video you should watch sometime of a youtuber using an eyasluna with rifled barrel at optimal hand cannon range and he was still missing shots. Even on the first bullet. This is stupid. [/quote] The cone gets bigger the faster you fire (supposedly) but it's still there even for the first shot. I haven't seen the video, but I would agree that it shouldn't happen as often.
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I've never had as much frustration with my shots hitting or missing with any gun, good perks or bad, than I have with hc. Crappy auto rifles, crappy pulse rifles.
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Machine guns do it for me. I have one that is highest damage, lowest rate of fire machine guns that only hold 20 in a magazine and rougly 4 of the 20 will actually hit where I aim.
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Except if you watch Triple's video, his shots missed like 50% of the time, within the range of the HC, as evidenced by him getting max damage on the precision shots, when they actually did register.
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Just because you have full damage potential doesn't mean your in the prime spot for the cone. I don't know how large the cone is since it's not a visible thing in game, but basically no matter the range it will always be less accurate the further away the target is. You could be literal inches away from a wall and aimed in and the bullets won't all hit the same spot.
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I'm not saying that it was prime position, but you said that bullets will hit 99% of the time where you are aiming if in the effective range. He was in the effective range. He was using Eyasluna. The highest ranged HC in the game. He had Rifled Barrel. He was standing still and so was the target. He paced shots like one every 3 seconds, yet he still missed half the time, if not more. How is that acceptable?
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I'm going to assume he didn't have rangefinder or hidden hand then. Also, I never said it's a good or bad thing, just that it's the way weapons work in Destiny for some reason.
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I don't know if he had Hidden Hand or Range Finder, but it's pretty ridiculous that you need Rangefinder and Rifled Barrel on an HC or it's worthless. All of my HCs have either Rangefinder or Rifled/ Reinforced Barrel or Hammer Forged at a Minimum or I just dismantle them. Pretty sure everyone does the same now, and that fact alone should indicate that there is a problem. There are tons of perks for HCs, but if it's not one of those I just mentioned, you can't even equip the damn gun. Thanks Bungie. Not saying that you agree that it's a good thing (I would hope you don't think so) I was just saying that the guns don't work as you said they did. You will not hit 99% or shots at ANY range with HCs in this meta, even if they are the first shot fired and you are standing still. I've been using primarily HCs since the Alpha, and I play this game for several hours a day, just about every single day. The amount of times that I've missed someone at pretty much point blank range, who was absolute, and rushing me with a shotgun, is too many to count. And when I say missed, I mean missed a body shot. Not even going for the head, because they had so little health that a body shot would do, and nothing registers. This is what the Sandbox team doesn't get. There is no range where this RNG accuracy doesn't affect HCs.
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God-rolled handcannons will hit 99%+ of shots. I have an Imago Loop that has rangefinder hammer forged and hidden hand that fires as accurately as a scout rifle. Even then the damage drop off happens pretty quick so it's not very good even at high end auto/low end pulse range. I agree that having to have certain perks just to make it so the gun actually hits is an issue and they should tweak it a bit. They can't just remove the cone altogether though, because every weapon type has it even if you don't feel it doing anything. Imo, they should either A; reduce the minimum size of the cone and time it takes to reset so the first shot will land more reliably, spaced shots will also hit more reliably and firing as fast as possible would act much like it does now or B; increase the range of damage dropoff by a fairly large amount, which would cause the cone to have a narrower incline.
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All of my HCs are "god rolled", because if they aren't, I dismantle them, because worthless... and they do not hit 99% of their shots, even at closer ranges. No where near that. By "god roll" I mean Sureshot, Rangefinder, and Rifled Barrell. The last perk is pretty inconsequential compared to the others mentioned. EIther Icarus or Reactive Reload would be my preference, but if the other perks are there, I don't really care what the last one is.
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I wouldn't underestimate hidden hand on hand cannons if I were you. It helps the problem you're describing immensely.
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Hidden Hand has nothing to do with Bloom. Hidden Hand adds Aim Assist. Aim Assist is tied to how much your crosshairs slow down when they come in close proximity to the target. That won't do anything to prevent ghost bullets when, as we've seen in the video, they happen when you are perfectly stationary and aiming at a target that is stationary as well. The First Curse has the highest AA of any Hand Cannon. I think it's 95 or something extremely close. I get ghost bullets with TFC all the time. Hidden HAnd helps with sniping where you sometimes need to make sweeping adjustments on a small target (the head) and the slow down/ stickiness of AA helps you not overshoot. It is not tied to Bloom, though so it won't help you, because there's more to hitting the target than just having your crosshairs on the target. Hence this entire discussion.
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Editado por Yoru: 9/14/2016 5:08:51 AMNo. Hidden hand helps bullet magnetism also for all weapons with the exception of sniper rifles. I don't know where you got the idea that it only affects the stickiness of the reticle, but it's simply untrue. Also, I just watched Triple's video on it. All of the hand cannons he used were outside of optimal range for the hand cannon used. (82 is not full damage for Eyasluna crit)
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He was getting 86 crit, which is max damage in the stream. Hidden Hand does nothing but increase AA, which in turn, does nothing but slow down the reticule. Bullet magnetism is FUD echoed by those that always cry nerf for sniper rifles. There are MANY, MANY videos on this subject.
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Editado por Yoru: 9/15/2016 4:24:07 AM1. I copied the damage directly from the youtube video of his. He was hitting 82. 2. I already told you Hidden hand increases bullet magnetism for all primaries, however it does not give that bonus to snipers. I'm sure Triple probably has a video proving it himself. Also, people claiming hidden hand increases bullet magnetism for snipers aren't going to get snipers nerfed in any way for two reasons. Bungie knows how their own game is programmed and isn't going to nerf something over anything that doesn't exist. Even if hidden hand affected bullet magnetism for snipers they wouldn't be nerfed, hidden hand would.
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Editado por Spidey: 9/15/2016 3:38:25 PMI said STREAM, not the YouTube video. "I already told you Hidden Hand..." Lol at I already told you, like you're the authority and your word should be enough. I've seen evidence to the contrary and I also play the game. Sorry, but your word isn't convincing enough for me.
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Then go and listen to whatever youtube you think is the "authority" on perks. Well, no -blam!-ing shit I can't watch a stream that is already over so I watched his youtube video on it. I have no idea if what you claim is true but in the youtube video he didn't do it in optimal range so I have reason enough to suspect you're lieing or you're recalling the stream wrong.
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There are many people in this very thread that have said the same thing that I am saying with regards to the stream, but we're probably all lying, so.
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I don't see the many people you claim are saying he was hitting 87s per headshot in this thread. Seems like a random thing to bring up unless they were a part of this particular conversation.
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86, not 87. They brought it up, because several people have made similar arguments as you about the YouTube vid. Not just the damage, but also saying that he didn't do tests from different ranges and that he didn't show the perks of the weapon, all of which he did on the stream. Read the whole thread, or just assume I'm lying. Makes me no difference.
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At this point it doesn't matter if you are or you aren't. It simply hasn't been proven to me that hand cannons miss in their intended range as often as people are claiming. My Imago loop lands every bullet on enemies even far outside of it's intended range, which is proof enough for me that hidden hand effects bullet magnetism as it's the only perk my eyasluna doesn't have which misses much more despite having much more range.
