Most primary weapons kill in right under or at a second. That's pretty fast isn't it? I can definitely tell ttk is slower but, it's nothing game breaking. We don't really have a go to primary these days. Players can be successful with all weapon types except for maybe the slower rate of fire pulse rifles. Secondary weapons rule the crucible now. I easily see players every match running their secondary as primary. It's funny because many of them don't know what to do when they run out of special.

I can honestly say I use legendaries more than exotics. The only time I use them are spindle and touch in the raid and the the supercell for ark burn. That's it. Any other time I just have a legendary equipped because well they are better than exotics.

False, exotics did not cause the fall of legendaries. Crucible cry-babies that cried for nerfs everytime they were killed but an exotic they didn't have caused the downfall of legenadries. Exotics are supposed to the most powerful guns of their type hence ebing called exotics, if we put them at the same level as legendary then they should be called legendary not exotic.

I have to disagree as far as going off your intro. The exotics were never the problem in this game. It's Bungie's so-call "balancing" team. Bungie went from making a game with one set of weapons on every map to. Lets let everything under the sun to be allowed in crucible. That's the first biggest mistake Bungie has made in this game as far as weapons go. Second, is nerfing any weapons and that means many weapons that are used the most and it's entire category. Then you have the mistake they made and they still don't have a clue. Is making weapons that can compete and work across the entire board. Bungie is stuck in full nerf mode and they don't have the concept on what it means to buff. 75% of weapons, gear, super, grenades are nerfed, but only 25% of things in this game are buffed and even then it's like pulling teeth to get Bungie to see that. That you can't keep nerfing everything and not expect everything else to not be complained about or considered Op knowing half the weapons that are consider Op were never a problem until Bungie went full nerf mode. This is where the stupid pattern that Bungie caused has messed up this entire game. Bungie nerfs whatever not looking at the overall on what kind of chain reaction it will cause. The chain reaction is the gamer going to the next go to and since it's used the most it will be complained about the most and Bungie will nerf it. Leaving other weapons or whatever to appear to be something they never were. It also don't help that streamers have more of a say and always will in this game then anyone on here. It's a fact that no one can deny nor fight it. [b]Hints to why everything in this game is open game to the nerf team to nerf it or even nerf it a few times but snipers. The one weapon Bungie favors over every single thing in this game.[/b] Think about that for a moment. It's the only thing in this game that will never get nerfed like everything else in this game, and i mean everything else... so were the exotics ever really the problem in this game?

While I agree that you are right hand cannons did need the range nerf, auto rifes did need the damage nerf now pulse rifes need a nerf to sort out the three low damage ones but in order to balance guns bungie did do a few things wrong like adding a damage cone on hand cannons so we if to place our shots.

No putting pvp before pve (the core of the game) killed every part of the weapons.

Unfortunately yes, but some of the year 2 weapons like Touch of Malice make for pretty well designed exotics.

Poor balancing caused the downfall of legendaries. The exotic design had nothing to do with it.

I have to disagree because : Suros Regime had many different counter guns including legendaries like Shadow Price. The big issue with Suros was the introduced Iron Banner bounty get 10 kill auto rifle kills. TLW's issue was a the hip fire bug and the range , which should be corrected long ago and had too many counter guns like Suros - Vex - Thorn - Shotties - Messenger - Hopskotch etc.. Thorn , the big issue with thorn was the dot effect in my opinion. It sure needed a bit touch but if the dot was not introduced to the player , it wouldn't be a major issue in my opinion. There is a simple reason why you can wear a single exotic at one time. Exotics have additional perks which will make them desired over legendaries. They shall continue to keep this practise otherwise exotics will completely loose it's value. In year 1 when a player faced an exotic drop they would be happy , now majority of exotics are keeping dust in our vaults and no one g.ve a -blam!- when they drop.

So just nerf all exotics that are useable huh? Make everything unusable so that everything is used but takes way to long to kill? No.

Wrong. Considering PvP over the core of the game, PvE, is what has done all this

I'd say the opposite - exotics have completely lost their value. In year 1 it was like OMG AN EXOTIC and hoping for Xur to sell something you really wanted. Now they're meh. Legendaries are equal or even better, making exotics pretty much undesired.

Poorly educated children whose only self-worth is derived from k/d ratio killed legendaries and exotics

[quote]Weapons need to be good in their ranges, if so, people will use them because a range will fit someone's playstyle.[/quote] This is not really true though. You can get perks like range finder, send it, hammer forged, etc. on some weapons giving them MUCH more range than other weapons in their weapon classes. So long as these perks exist, some weapons will be able to perform well outside of their intended ranges. Am I looking for these perks to be nerfed? HELL NO! What I'm saying is that there is too much variability for this game to ever achieve perfect balance. Rather than have that as a goal, they should just stop obsessing so much about balance and ONLY change those weapons which were TRULY game wrecking (Vex Mythoclast pre-nerf in Y1, for example). These should be TARGET SPECIFIC tunings, and should ONLY effect PVP.

They weren't poorly designed though. In Y1, exotics were designed to be very powerful. They represented a big-time step up from legendary weapons - and rightfully so- because players could only equip ONE exotic in their weapon slot and ONE exotic in their armor slots. The power those exotics represented were NOT brain farts, they were actually designed to be powerful. And they were MUCH HARDER to get in Y1, justifying the fact that they were so powerful. People ultimately ended up complaining about how powerful they were in PVP. This wasn't the ONLY factor involved, as we know Bungie data mines the crap out of this game, but it didn't hurt their argument when they finally came out and nerfed these classes of weapons across the board. Rather than doing weapon specific nerfs to tone down specific weapons ONLY IN PVP, they just do the lazy thing and nerf the weapon class in general across the board, not even considering how it will effect all the archetypes of weapons in that class as a whole. Ultimately, it's not the exotics that killed legendary weapons, its the players refusal to just accept the fact that this is a loot based FPS grinder and there ARE going to be some weapons that are really powerful and dominate. Pvpers constantly complain about balance - in a game where you can argue balance really shouldn't apply. How can you expect a game to be balanced when you have 9 different subclasses, each with different skills, armor/recovery/agility stats, and then on top of that, you have a bunch of fun, amazing perks which make guns do things they were not intended to do (HC's with SR range in Y1, for example). These are things that make PVE FUN, and they're the exact things that PVPer's hate the most - because they want game outcomes decided on player skill alone. You simply can't have that kind of PVP in Destiny because there are way too many variables. Rather than just accept that, PVPers have constantly complained about the next round of perceived OP weapons that are dominating PVP play, and Bungie keeps responding to them with more nerfs across the board for both PVE AND PVP. The game has started whittling down and eroding the things that made it exciting in Y1 and has continued to migrate towards the more generic. And in the mean time, the game as a whole suffers. Exotics are now too common and are little more than infusion fuel. They're no longer powerful, and they certainly rarely justify using up that exotic slot over a god-rolled legendary weapon. I don't think exotics killed legendary weapons at all. I think PVP players killed exotic and legendary weapons - and they continue to do so with each meta cycle. And unfortunately, until Bungie grows a spine and starts telling players to suck it up or until Bungie actually changes how they go abouts tuning things in PVP, they will continue to do so in the future.

??? Eyasluna, hawksaw, GOM, DOP, Finalas peril, Suros legendaries, and plenty others. Plus there are plenty of snipers, plenty of shotguns, and some fusions. Get outta here

exotics are suppose to be better than legendary weapons. If not there's no point in wasting an exotic slot.

I don't get it. With the exception of Low RoF pulse rifles and pretty much all shotguns, what feels different than HoW? Hand Cannons 3-tap Low Impact Pulse Rifles 3 tap Auto's are actually viable now Snipers...we've seen the posts Machine guns are better Sure, rockets took a hit, but if you can't get a kill with a rocket...just ignore heavy ammo Fusion Rifles are gaining popularity There's still a small group of sidearm fanatics We have swords Scouts have barely been changed So really, what's different to you? I don't get it.

Bump. Idk why they didn't just nerf the Regime by it self they didn't have to wed all autos