Good idea. Lets just all be extremely casual and ignore anything that's remotely overpowered compared to everything else and pretend everything is completely balanced. Got it Big Brother!

Never called for original SUROS or Vex to be brought back. If you think "annoying" and "frustrating" means something is "OP" we can agree to disagree civilly right there. Also, why did you buy a space magic crazy weapons and gear game but now you want CS:GO or something akin to it. I personally liked the idea of finding PvE gear and having fun in PvP with it and so did Bungie at first as PvP was originally billed as a side show (which is all it should have ever been). We have all of these cool weapons and abilities but have them nerfed into the ground for what, to be CoD? Nah, I'm good. Wake me up when Destiny has dedicated servers at the very least and then tell me about causal's and hardcore's.

Muted. You clearly are not bright.

You mean critical thinking people that aren't drones and are actually concerned about the game and how its balanced?

Ah, so streamers are our benevolent benefactors merely here to help tell us how we should play? Very saintly of them. All of my time since Day 1 in this game, I'm definitely confused on how things work or what I like I guess.

Let's not blame the players for bad game balance and poor design.

While I can agree in the sense that Bungie has mishandled design in some areas a lot of this is on the players. Did you get this game to have crazy cool space abilities and weapons? I did! I think most people did. But Bungie is slowly turning this game into generic FPS title "X". I think it would be hard to deny that the streamers/YouTubers and therefore their followers that regurgitate them are not a problem. Bungie is the other part of the problem for listening to them. I'm not at all saying we should have weapons run rampant like original SUROS and Vex but c'mon man. Enough with this "balance" stuff (not attacking you, saying this in general sense). No FPS I have ever played has needed this much "balancing". The term "balance" is basically just used now it seems to shut up any opposition to nerfs as if those anti nerf people will be shamed for "not wanting a balanced game" or something. This game was meant to be fun and crazy space magic stuff. Not CoD. Tired of people acting like this is supposed to be CS:GO or something.

No, it's really not on the players. Bungie is supposed to be smart enough to cut the wheat from the chaff when it comes to complaints but they really don't have a clue in any capacity. They know something's wrong but they don't know or understand what the specific problems are nor do they know how to fix the problems they do know of. They look at graphs and tinker from there, oblivious to what those stats actually mean. And when they tinker, they don't realize that everything isn't in isolation and that's why the repercussions only lead to a still unbalanced game. The thing the gamers want was a balanced Crucible. Bungie simply doesn't have the design aptitude at the studio anymore to accomplish such a minor feat. $350 million and 9(?) years now of the best tech, programmers, artists, in the world can't make up for a lack of game design and balance, nor can it make up for a lack of quality management. This game has never offered the crazy cool space magic stuff. This game is supposed to be a monster hit from the creators of Halo. It has wildly underdelivered and it's not the streamers fault. And if we're being honest here, Bungie is so far lost that the only realistic way I can see them fixing Crucible to a satisfactory state of quality is to pretty much scrap every underlying thing in the PVP outside of hard player mechanics and assets. Because aside from how the game controls and how pretty the levels are, this PVP has nothing worth retaining.

Agreed on Bungie being a problem as far as listening to complainers. Agree to disagree on other things. On PvP in general, as many have said it's actually in an ok place right now. So, my suggestion, Bungie basically put it out there that their "listening to nerf requests" department is now closed. That from this point on we all need to suck it up, STFU, and just play PvP. As soon as we see paid teams in tournaments ala CS:GO or LoL then it's time to wake me up and tell me Destiny PvP is something to take seriously. Dedicated servers are #1 on the to do list. I chuckle that Destiny PvP doesn't even have that but we're supposed to fawn over it like it's something special or to be taken seriously.

Agreed bunch of whiny kids

Are you not familiar with the term balanced gameplay?

I am not why don't you explain it to me, keep in mind I'm terrible at pvp.

Yeah I am familiar unfortunately this games devs have no idea how to achieve balance.