Bungie,
In my personal experience, the new falloff damage penalty to hand cannons is too steep. Previously hand cannons were in a good spot, but just needed more accuracy. A gun with a low magazine, high impact, slower fire rate, and requirement for precision shots to achieve quicker kills should not be able to be so unreliable. In addition, the penalty to flinching while using a hand cannon and a difficulty to survive multiple opponents at once makes this a high risk-high reward weapon enough already. A precision gun should reward a precise hand instead of challenge it and having the previous damage falloff would help that without them becoming hand snipers. If anything, I believe hand cannons needed more range before dropoff in the previous patch. Although I am the minority on that opinion, I believe it to be more reasonable for variety.
In addition, The First Curse has intolerable and deceiving range. The namesake and purpose of this gun is to ADS for longer range engagements. In my opinion, this is the only hand cannon that should compete with scout rifles so it can truely be unique, and it's fire rate and zoom would keep it from being overpowered. The range should at the very least be greater than any hand cannon could achieve since you, yourself Bungie, said your aim was for this to be the longest range hand cannon.
The Last Word is currently in a sorry state right now. Contrary to other's opinions, I don't believe it to be terrible. It's still decent in pvp. However, other guns can do better than The Last Word. The namesake of this gun is to be a hip-firing, close-to-mid combat machine. It's accuracy is absolutely horrible, it's better to ADS in almost all circumstances, and hip fire no longer feels as rewarding. Even minute changes to range, stability, and/or ballistics types would help, but I would just love a considerable reason to hipfire again.
Thorn should be brought back to year 2 already. As much as this gun was the bane of my existence in year 1, it has become a much better balanced gun and is not overpowered to break Crucible.
A random suggestion: I would love to see more Tex Mechanica hand cannons and other weapon types in the game. Especially the gunsmith.
In conclusion, handcannons overall need their previous damage falloff values returned and an increase to accuracy. A personal request is to return the previous falloff values and add more range. However, at the bare minimum for competition, the previous damage dropoff values should be restored. And amongst other things, certain hand cannons need particular addressing to make them more viable. Anyone, feel free to add or scrutinize my suggestions. Thank you for your time.
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Tl;DR: They're -blam!-ed as of late.
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Shameless bump
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Editado por BlackPearlCapt7: 7/1/2016 2:14:27 AMFeel free to add any suggestions.
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1 RespuestaI feel that they could be buffed back to year 1 status if the larger maps on which scout rifles excel were more common in the rotation. Even in year 1 (on my Xbox account) I was a great advocate of scout rifle use. They were very consistent and easy to kill snipers with, my gheleon's demise with full auto was my favourite by far. It had the fire rate to gun down shotgun rushers, the range to kill snipers and the consistency to outgun thorn and last word. I personally am an advocate for restoring all weapons to their primes. With the exception of shotgun equip speed and hidden hand on snipers.
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5 RespuestasPlease Handcannons have always been my favorite weapon :c
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1 RespuestaI agree and believe the range falloff should not occur until a longer range, pre patch was good. Also, I still feel some hand cannons shoot phantom bullets. They have definitely improved since the beginning of ttk but do not have the kind of aim assist as pulse rifles.
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1 RespuestaPetition for "Nerf handcannons" to be the new "nerf fusion rifles" Patch 2.3.3: Handcannons now start damage falloff three feet behind you, and bloom three seconds before you fire the gun. This solidifies their role as close range weapons.
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1 RespuestaEditado por Clarity: 6/22/2016 1:42:05 PMI agree. To me hand cannons In Y1 were what made the crucible amazing to me, to be rewarded with accuracy instead of questioning my next shot now
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4 RespuestasWhat really gets to me is that it's the second time they buff the accuracy on hand cannons but the ghost bullets are still there. And the damage fall of actualy made long range hand cannons weaker. My ace of spades is weaker. The hawkmoon still sucks. And yes, I can still do well with both of them and with other hand cannons but I feel like I'm playing handicaped. Whenever I play with scouts ou pulses (rarely and never with autorifles) they are so much better than hand cannons. They have more range, they hit where I aimed...and why do I still play with hand cannons? They are Destiny's most unique weapon, the one that is more fun for me, even in this day and age of blank in the chamber and holdin nothing :(
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2 RespuestasRemove ALL accuracy bloom and restore range drop off and buff range.
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2 RespuestasMake hand cannons great again
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9 RespuestasThe last Word has become a real joke .. i have to shoot 4-5 headshots to close range enemy to see them fall .. while i get shoot from across the map with pulse and scout rifle .. i used to love playing with handguns in pvp and in pve but now i dont even think about it ... im currently trying to get The Chaperone quest done but my ratio is horrible while playing only with The Last Word.. i agree with the fact that bungie should give them back more power.. playing with those only lead me to rage quit because after a full clip in him the guy is still alive
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10 RespuestasThey need more range. Take the average hand cannon and test out when their damage starts to drop off, it's a joke along with their definition of mid range. The same can be said about auto rifles. I don't understand their thinking having primaries have terrible range. More range = more competition against special weapons.
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1 RespuestaEditado por DeathPony07: 6/20/2016 6:29:50 PMHandcannons have been garbage since the 2.0 patch. They need to be returned to pre 2.0 stats. What's the point of having a fire rate stat bar if I can't effectively shoot it at it's intended fire rate. Pacing your shots only gets you killed faster. The only handcannons that needed a nerf in 2.0 were the Thorn and TLW. Auto rifles needed a buff, and that was all Crucible needed in the 2.0 patch. Crybaby bad kids have ruined this game.
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1 RespuestaEditado por iDovahBear: 6/24/2016 10:38:52 AMI felt like the recent changes were less about buffing Hand Cannons with bad rolls and more about bringing those with incredibly high range values down. I feel like my Eyasluna w/ Rifled Barrel has had a hit to accuracy, and part of this seems to be a delay in hit detection. I'll shoot, briefly see a bullet hit them, but it takes about 0.33 seconds to actually load the damage. Most other guns are pretty quick to calculate damage. I feel like the 'initial accuracy' change may have put in a manual delay on damage calculation for an 'accuracy check' of some sort. Like the game took a moment longer than is normal to process exactly whether or not it was precision damage, and whether or not the dropoff was severe or minimal.
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1 RespuestaAgree. 1. There needs to be more range overlap among all primaries. The concept that is driving differentiation through range has been applied too strongly. Hand cannons and auto rifles need to both compete at greater distances. More overlap in competitive range creates more viability for diverse gameplay choices. This is not a situation that limitations enhance creative problem solving... this is a situation that makes me have to make unsatisfying compromise. 2. IMO - Most importantly, and this is essential, the "bloom" that diminishes sequential fire accuracy for hand cannons must die an immediate death. I should not need to calculate for both the weapon stats and an additional subjective cushion for letting the gun come back to a resting point to have confidence in my next shot hitting where I am aiming my gun - this dramatically increases the weapon time to kill and decreases confidence that what I am doing on the screen (aiming, anticipating, shooting) will actually effect the intended outcome. Phantom bullets create a lack of confidence in the entire weapon class. It is bad design. It is poor thinking. It is not fun.
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3 RespuestasLegendary hand cannons in yr 1 were fine honestly HoW in particular. The only thing that needed nerfing were exotic hand cannons and arguably only hawkmoon and thorn. Auto rifles needed a buff bad which they got and everything else was good. The classes were balanced and there was only real complaining about thorn. That is why I feel like that was the best time to use anything but autos and you felt powerful. High impact pulses could 2 burst. Hand cannons filled their roll at the close to mid range and scouts could compete at long range they could have seen a slight damage buff but that is my opinion. Bungie has ruined pvp patch after patch after patch. Now nothing works pve is screwed pvp is gruelingly slow paced and it may feel balanced but that is because we are shooting at each other with nerf guns and throwing water balloons at each other.
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1 RespuestaEditado por BRAZACK: 6/23/2016 8:07:11 AMThey are still viable but they cannot be used competitvely in crucible. They are not consistent unless u get a god roll highfixer or luna and that is damn near impossible with all the rng. I agree with you hc are still crap. Fc is the most reliable one but u have to be defensive and stay back. The firerate/handling is too slow to take on 2 or more people. I almost always get ganked, scoutrifles are the most reliable weapon for me . I used to be a hc junkie back in the day, god i miss the hc glory days. I wasnt one of those guys abusing thorn, or lw when they were op. i didnt get hawkmoon til after they nerfed the living crap out of it( thats how awesome your rng bullshit is bungie). The only change hmoon needed was a fix to lucky rounds stacking and killing people in one hit. Bungie beat it to death with the nerf stick. Like u said legendary hcs were in a good spot in how. It was just the exotics that needed tweaking but the entire subclass got nerfed. This just proves bungie cannot be trusted with the nerf stick.
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1 RespuestaI am noticing it is much harder to register a kill under snap conditions at medium range. Where before I could snap with confidence at range, now I have to perform the same tasks at even closer ranges, thanks to the ridiculous damage fall off. In some instances, I have seen a 60%+ loss in damage output. BUNGIE are turning into Indian givers, giving with one hand, but taking away with another.
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Editado por BlackPearlCapt7: 6/23/2016 10:20:47 PMShare ideas as well to improve hand cannons or certain exotics.
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2 RespuestasI use hand cannons all the time and I haven't had any problems so far
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1 RespuestaHand cannons are fine I'd say. Bungie doesn't want hand cannons to be viable at longer ranges or be able to challenge scouts.
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1 RespuestaI used one yesterday... ah.. the gun was cancer... I couldn't land one headshot it was so innacurate and they need to be buffed I'd say range and accuracy
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1 RespuestaI have no issue with hand cannons at present. I always thought they should work optimally at '10 paces', just like in the westerns. That feels like how they are now. The only thing ruining that effect for me now is the high rof autos that cause considerable flinch. How can a gun with almost no impact create the illusion of impact?!?! If that's the case, my Timurs Lash should be spinning helmets backwards!
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1 RespuestaI'm still experiencing phantom bullets. Actually more so than pre patch?
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1 RespuestaIn pvp everyone is going to go back to pulse riffles and Midas