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5/25/2016 10:22:43 PM
33
Year 1 PvE Loadout:
-Vision/FB
-Black Hammer/Predyth's Revenge
-Gjallarhorn/Hunger
Year 2:
-Hand of Judgement
-1KYS/Zen/Telesto
-SWORDS/Sleeper/QT
I like the switchup.
English
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Hand of Judgement: 27 ROF, 61 Impact archetype = The Scholar = Gheleon's Demise = Badger CCL = RESKIN = OP's central point 1KYS: 19 ROF, 31 Impact archetype = LDR 5001 = Longbow Synthesis = The Supremeacy = RESKIN = OP's central point Swords = crutch = Gjallarhorn
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[quote]Hand of Judgement: 27 ROF, 61 Impact archetype = The Scholar = Gheleon's Demise = [url=/en/help/?search=Badger]Badger[/url] CCL = RESKIN = OP's central point[/quote] You do realize by that logic, every archetype should have only 1 iteration since everything in the archetype would be a technical reskin? Destiny is a looter shooter. Take away the loot and you take away the incentive to play endgame activities. [quote]1KYS: 19 ROF, 31 Impact archetype = LDR 5001 = Longbow Synthesis = The Supremeacy = RESKIN = OP's central point[/quote] You also ignored Zen and Telesto in my post, but I can see how excluding parts of my post makes you feel like your is more valid. [quote]Swords = crutch = Gjallarhorn[/quote] Wow. You're actually dumb. You = Moron = Muted
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Mute lol. What a pvssy. I'm just going to bury my head in the sand if you don't agree with me! Complete idiot. Doesn't understand by now that weapons are reskins. Laughable. Yes that sword is a crutch. The reason I know is based on your sensitive reaction.
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Muting is dumb, but he did shred your argument to little pieces. That being said, swords were a dumb addition IMO.
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Not even close lol
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He was right about the re-skin. If you wan all guns that shoot the same way to look the same, that's what halo does, and they do it well. You did completely ignore 2/3 of the guns he was talking about, and re-made the re-skin point...which again...that's what Halo does. I'd hate to call swords a crutch too, as there is way more risk involved than Gally, which certainly was a crutch.
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Editado por TheLastSeabass: 5/26/2016 1:43:17 AMSome serious reading comprehension problems going on. The original point was that weapons are reskins but now have worse perks. It was never about what I want. He was attempting to put words in my mouth to fit his weak argument, so let's not make the same mistake. I didn't think I had to clarify (because reading comprehension) but I don't care about exotics such as Zen and Telesto. Exotics are outside the central point of reskinned archetypes that you get with legendaries. Just naming exotics doesn't mean anything within the framework of the discussion per the OP. Yes just because sword and gally are used at different ranges but let's not apply a false analogy. Swords take out many yellow bar threats and hordes before they have a chance to hurt you. Risk mitigation. He wanted the last word because all his arguments were weak. He had no choice but to pretend to be offended and mute.
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I'm sorry, but there wasn't much to infer from your original comment other than "reskins are bad." Until you got to heavy, then you stopped at swords and told the other guy he was using a crutch. So you used silly equations to show that all guns are the same thing and that variety doesn't matter. (may not be what you intended, but that's what is there.) And then told OP he's using a crutch weapon, thereby insulting him. Also, on paper yes. The guns have the same damage output, but each gun handles differently.
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What are you picking up the torch for bury the head in the sand guy? What's it to you what my discourse with him was and if I had insulted him? Those are rhetorical questions as I know each of you have a problem with pointing out that weapons are just paint jobs. Now, I just got off work. I'm going to go fire my reskins in Iron Banner!
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Cause I was on his side until he went full retard and muted you. Good luck in Iron Banner though man. Hope you get good teammates and better drops!
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man you disappoint me, I thought you were going to take this up a notch. I guess i have to say good luck to you now lol
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Haha, I don't get my kicks outta pissing people off. But if it makes you feel better.... YOU'RE A SCRUB GO PLAY COD KID (I'm not very good at this)
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This why I mute dude. Good luck in IB this week! May the drops be ever in your favor.
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haha well one thing we have in common is enjoying this game so let's get off forums and do it
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Editado por Zaine88x: 5/26/2016 12:22:34 AMPlease go on.... What would you not consider a reskin? I'm very curious. [spoiler]i want y1 guns back as well. More is better[/spoiler]
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Here is the thing though. Even if you BUY that we have greater variety now because we left Y1 gear behind, it still doesn't make logical sense that they needed to be left behind for variety's sake. If Y1 gear was still available, nothing would prevent you from using your favorite Y2 gear if you wanted. You simply just need to make that choice. You never get MORE variety by offering less choices. That simply doesn't make sense. They could increase variety further by allowing elemental damage infusion for kinetic weapons...
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don't bother trying to talk sense to this nimrod. he clearly doesn't want you criticizing the game and wants everyone to see things in his narrow little confined view
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Maybe it's Luke Smith's mother? LOL
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LOL in that case throw some money at her ;)
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[quote]Here is the thing though. Even if you BUY that we have greater variety now because we left Y1 gear behind, it still doesn't make logical sense that they needed to be left behind for variety's sake. If Y1 gear was still available, nothing would prevent you from using your favorite Y2 gear if you wanted. You simply just need to make that choice. [/quote] The problem is year 1 gear wasn't designed with balance in mind. Lots of year 1 gear were just too powerful compared to anything else you could get. Having year 1 gear didn't stop any of us from using other guns, but what was the point when it was clearly the best option by a longshot. [quote]You never get MORE variety by offering less choices. That simply doesn't make sense. [/quote] It's funny but you actually do. A level playing field always increases variety. Right now PvE and PvP are far more diverse than they were in year 1 when the Meta settled. [quote]They could increase variety further by allowing elemental damage infusion for kinetic weapons...[/quote] The danger here is there would be less use for secondaries and Heavies once you do that. They are trying to emphasize loadout choice and weapon juggling. A good example would be the Arc Burn round in PoE35. If you have a Zhalo, you never switch off it for any reason. They want people to make choices on Handling, perks, loadout complimenting. Those choices are far less relevant once primaries have elements.
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Editado por Killlerschaf: 5/26/2016 2:00:40 AMI use my Hung Jury 95% of the time in endgame PvE. Why? Because it's simply the best gun. Just like I did with the Fatebringer before, and will do with whatever comes next. What's the point of using bad guns? I don't make any weapon juggling choices, except for heavies. And in endgame it's either rockets for majors, or lmgs for bosses. Now apart from that: It's also not like Golgoroth would come to the forums to complain about our weapons and how OP they are. It's the damn PvE.
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And therein lies the problem. Why do they care about how we play in PVE, so long as we enjoy ourselves? I don't think elemental primaries de-emphasizes the importance of special/heavy. That's just a bogus excuse. We had elemental primaries in Y1 and we still used all 3 guns in our loadout throughout a fight, especially a big boss fight encounter. We actually switched whichever weapon we used based on the situation. There's a nasty arc sniper over there? I better countersnipe him with mine, or hit him with a tracking rocket. That big group down there of majors? Lets make life easier by annihilating them with chaingun fire or a well-placed rocket. You can believe your argument against elemental primaries to be true if you choose to do so, but I don't buy it for a minute. Most Y1 players don't/wont. As for Y1 perks being too powerful, I disagree. More powerful than Y2 perks/guns, absolutely! But that is not the fault of Y1 guns that is the fault of Bungie's weapons designs department. We don't need balance in PVE, we have a need to feel like the weapons we get and the light level increases we have make a difference. You can't deny that we have had a steady and stunning neutering of guardians weapons and powers since launch of the game. The powerful weapons and abilities are what made the game FUN and addicting. The only time BALANCE should come into play is in PVP. In which case, balance away! Just keep PVP balances reserved for the PVP realm. Fully separating PVP from PVE in this way would let both crowds be completely happy. Dreg's don't care about balance when your wrecking them. They don't cry. So I don't see any reason why "balance" should come into play in PVE. And the people who make Warframe agree. You can make ridiculously OP weapons in Warframe and they don't care that the weapons/skills/etc. are out of balance. Its PVE. They get that the more powerful your character feels, the more fun you are having and the more you WILL play. Bungie doesn't seem to understand this.
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Well, if you're just gonna say my argument is 'bogus' and you won't believe anything I'm saying, I guess I'm done here.
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I'm not saying you don't have an argument. I'm saying that your argument is like a colander. It simply doesn't hold water. If your argument were true, that elemental primaries de-emphasized the importance of specials, why were special/heavy weapons like G-horn, Icebreaker, B-Hammer, etc. all so prominently used? Fact of the matter is that we made situational use of our Y1 special/heavy weapons as well, regardless of whether we had elemental primaries. You would be dumb to ONLY use VoC on a boss during a solar burn when you had B-hammer and G-Horn at your disposal as well. Given the FACT that we actually swapped between special/heavy weapons just as much in Y1 as we did in Y2, there is little reason to not have elemental primaries. IF, in fact, you buy the argument that elemental primaries hurt primary weapon variety by limiting our choices to only those weapons with burns, the answer then, was to make elemental primary weapons MORE available by allowing us to put custom burns on weapons with kinetic damage. THAT would increase variety. The truth of the matter is that elemental primaries were removed to extend playtime artificially. Rather than cracking a shield in 2-3 shots, it takes a full mag + change, depending on your weapon of choice. They couldn't allow that when they planned to have long content droughts. Which is simply not a GOOD excuse to remove something that most players enjoyed. The ones who didn't simply didn't have access to those weapons.
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I'm going to hop in here and kinda call BS on the fact that we used special and heavy the same way in Y1 as we do now. You used Ghorn and Black Hammer to make bosses irrelevant, because your primary could literally kill everything else on their own. Icebreaker was used to sit back and pick things off since you never had to close the gap to get ammo. He's right, they got rid of elemental primaries to encourage weapon juggling. Sure, it takes ~a clip to take down shields...unless you have a heavy machine gun, then they're down in seconds. I'm not opposed to adding elemental infusion, but I don't really see how it's necessary. I also won't deny that we've seen perks fall off (god field scout was nice), but the fact of the matter is Y1 weapons were too strong. This isn't a problem in and of itself, but it does become a problem when your weapon out-classes ALL content in the game. Before patch 2.0, the "trifecta" loadout could slaughter everything in the PvE world. You've been saying that we don't need "balance" in the PvE world, I'll have to wholeheartedly disagree. Not because I hate fun and want my guardian to feel weak, but because the primary source of loot comes from PvE activities. If you trivialize that, well, you trivialize the value of loot in a loot based game. There needs to remain a challenge. Long story short, if we want our Y1 guns back, we need some exceptionally hard PvE content to warrant guns of that power. These activities need to be a source of top-flight loot, and would need to require teamwork/weapon co-ordination to accomplish. As it stands right now, we don't have anything like that.
