What's a pefect roll to you might not be a perfect roll to me. Plus, with how ridiculously bad the loot system currently is, reforge gives the players who get constantly -blam!-ed by rng a chance to make that weapon a viable choice.

Imo rerolling weapons is bad in the long run, you just get one weapon and reroll it until you have the perfect roll and the perfect roll is often the meta roll for everyone so it doesnt promote any diversity. While HoW was a good time for pvp the meta was the strongest on that time, everyone and their grandmas had a exotic primary (usually TLW or Thorn), a range finder/shot packeage with range mods, a final round sniper and a tripod/clown cardtridge with proxy detonation, once you got the weapons you dont care or even try new weapons and never get better weapons because you already have them. Keep rerolling to armor only and just remove or rework crappy perks to promote diferent playstyles.

But final round and shot package are both gone, which was the primary issue in year 1. I personally think hidden hand needs to be removed as well. All the perk trees have been reworked, so I think it'll be just fine. You literally can buy a few god roll weapons from the vendors (vacancy, hawksaw, the machine gun and auto from New Monarchy) and you are given a god roll conspiracy theory from TTK's questline. And these weapons are flocked to and used religiously. Rerolling would allow room for new weapons to surface.

The issue is not always the perks per se but the meta, what i mean is that there will always be "god" rolls for weapons and thats good because it gives player a weapon they crave and desire but you dont need a god roll weapon to do good in the crucible, only in sweats it is that those weapons make a large diference but if you enable rerolling you make the crucible 10x more sweatier by making the god roll weapons the defacto loadout and now even the casuals get more stomped and that means no fun for anyone. As much as i or everyone hates RNG its keeps things for going out of control and gives that sweet feeling once you get that precious weapon you were looking for.

But it also gives those lower skilled players a chance to have an equal loadout so others dont have a huge advantage over them. I think it would help promote more gunfights and primary usage honestly.

You don't get it. Bungie tried this already. It failed. People abused it.

I dont think [i]you[/i] get it. As someone who primarily only plays crucible, I can tell you thats when it was the best.

It was not the best. There is a reason Bungie removed it. Bungie makes PvP changes based on data they gather, you know. Just because you liked reforging doesn't mean it was best for PvP. That's YOUR opinion. Data and facts showed that this was not good for PvP at all.

Moron. Data and facts also showed that the 1kys and Qullim's were overused, even though they were the only viable options given (partly due to the shitty infusion system and part because they literally handed out the sniper for free), and they went ahead and nerfed them anyway. They also said "MIDA is perfectly balanced, but we're removing High Cal rounds anyway". They don't know what they're doing. Stfu

Data showed they were overused, which is exactly why Bungie nerfs weapons or removes things like reforging. Thanks for proving my point. Now who's the moron?

Overused =/= Overpowered, people used it so much because it was the last balanced primary, and all other primaries basically suck. 1KYS was the only high impact/ res kill sniper with normal scopes, and Qullim's was the only usable MG because you couldn't infuse any other machine gun to 320 for the raid in an efficient manner, it would've taken at least 3 infusions to max out another heavy. Instead of nerfing MIDA, why not just buff other primaries? And instead of nerfing 1KYS, why not just give us more res kill snipers with normal scopes? And instead of nerfing Qullim's, why not fix the infusion system? Oh right, they fixed the last two issues I mentioned, so the nerfs were pointless and misguided, and should be undone, and primaries should be buffed. [quote]Now who's the moron?[/quote]Still you.

Uh, you should know by now that Bungie doesn't want anything being overused. It doesn't matter if it's not OP. If it's overused and creating a lack of variety, changes will come. They want you to have more options. They CLEARLY said this when they were talking about the MIDA nerf. Is it the best way to do it? Maybe not, but that's irrelevant. Why they are doing is what matters and they use data to back up these changes, and the main factor is weapon usage. Now, I ask, again, who's the moron? You don't even realIze you proved my point when you first mentioned weapon usage lmao

[quote]Uh, you should know by now that Bungie doesn't want anything being overused. It doesn't matter if it's not OP. If it's overused and creating a lack of variety, changes will come. They want you to have more options. They CLEARLY said this when they were talking about the MIDA nerf.[/quote]We had more options, then they nerfed them, then they nerfed more instead of just making things more powerful to compete. Balance UP, not down. [quote]Is it the best way to do it? Maybe not, [/quote]Definitely not. [quote]Why they are doing is what matters and they use data to back up these changes, and the main factor is weapon usage.[/quote]And they use the data WRONG. [quote]Now, I ask, again, who's the moron?[/quote]Still you. Everyone having good guns from reforging isn't 'abuse', it's creating balance, and gets rid of the 'who got the better roll from RNG' factor. [quote]You don't even realIze you proved my point when you first mentioned weapon usage lmao[/quote]What point? Did we even see any stats on rerolling? Because I certainly don't remember any. ...Actually I do, I remember seeing a massive variety of weapons used in PvP because they were all viable. [quote]Just because you liked reforging doesn't mean it was best for PvP. That's YOUR opinion. Data and facts showed that this was not good for PvP at all.[/quote]Data and facts don't mean shit when your weapon balancing philosophies are as bad as Bungie's. "We only gave out one good option for each weapon class, they're being used too much, so we're nerfing them" what kind of bullshit is that.

Hahaha massive variety in PvP. You are so funny. Primary weapons were either TLW or thorn For specials it was either efrideet's spear with perfect rolls that include final round (that's just one perk) or felwinter's lie. If not that shotgun, people would just get the same rolls with another shotgun. Same with snipers. Heavy weapon, it was either truth or other rockets with horseshoes and grenades. Getting these rolls was easy thanks to reforging. This led to lack of variety because people would either use the same weapons or use the same perks. So my point still stands. Weapons and perks being overused is the reason reforging was removed. Reforging did not work as Bungie intended.

You have [b]literally[/b] a fraction of the Crucible time I do, you have no position to say there was no variety. Hopscotch, Messenger, Time on Target, 123 Syzygy, 55A-Allfate, Aegis of the Kell, KAU8 Constellation Scar, Oversoul Edict, Skorri's Revenge, Praedyth's Timepiece, Spare Change.25, Three Little Words, Conduit. And that's JUST the Pulse Rifles. I saw plenty of variety in PvP Snipers: Black Hammer, Broken Truth-LR1, Efrideet's, Benevolence, LDR, Longbow, Low-Grade Humility, Shadow of Veils, The Chosen Shotguns: PC+1, Matador, Felwinter's, Dry Rot 32, Astral Horizon, Found Verdict, Judgment VI, Rude Awakening DOA, The Crash, Swordbreaker Rockets: Admonisher, Exodus Plan RS/1, Hunger of Crota, Radegast's, Ash Factory, Dreamwaker, Tomorrow's Answer, The Cure Machine Guns: Jolder's, AAO, BTRD-345, Chain of Orbiks-Fel, Corrective Measure, Deviant Gravity-A, MG18A Harm's Way, Prestige IV, Song of Ir Yut, Wolves' Bane, ZAWF47, SWARM, Infinite Theorem. There was PLENTY of different guns in PvP because every single one of them could be customized to the player's liking. Stfu

*facepalm* You playing more doesn't mean I didn't play during that time. What if I actually started playing when we could reforge those weapons??? smh Giving me a list of weapons that existed in Destiny proves just that: weapons that existed in Destiny. It does not refute my argument at all. There is something called minority. Weapons are being overused, but that doesn't mean other weapons are not being used, genius. I have seen different scout rifles, auto rifles, HCs, etc. does that mean MIDA and TLW weren't overused before this last update, Of course not. So yeah, nice try. Even if a lot of people used those weapons you mentioned (they did not), most likely they went for the same perks anyway, and as I said, they were easy to get thanks to reforging and here we go back to the variety issues Bungie wants to stay away from.

[quote]You playing more doesn't mean I didn't play during that time. What if I actually started playing when we could reforge those weapons??? smh[/quote]You still wouldn't have seen NEARLY as many players as me. So of course you're going to see less variety when you have less game time. [quote]Giving me a list of weapons that existed in Destiny proves just that: weapons that existed in Destiny.[/quote]That's a list of weapons I saw used in TRIALS. [quote]It does not refute my argument at all.[/quote]Actually it does, if I've seen those weapons being used, then obviously they were being used. [quote]There is something called minority. Weapons are being overused, but that doesn't mean other weapons are not being used, genius. I have seen different scout rifles, auto rifles, HCs, etc. does that mean MIDA and TLW weren't overused before this last update, Of course not.[/quote]They're exotics??? Aren't they supposed to be unique and lusted after??? [quote]Even if a lot of people used those weapons you mentioned (they did not),[/quote]Uhh yes they did. I have 28 days and two hours of Crucible on this game, I have seen far more than you have. [quote]most likely they went for the same perks anyway[/quote]Some of the ones listed weren't rerollable since they were from before HoW or were static-rolled rewards from Trials, so... [quote]they were easy to get thanks to reforging and here we go back to the variety issues Bungie wants to stay away from.[/quote]And yet they CAUSED these variety issues by handing out a perfectly rolled 1KYS and Conspiracy Thoery-D from a freaking story mission. I'd rather see seven different guns with the same perks than hundreds of the same gun with the a diluted pool of trash perks that are only there to increase the grind.

Dude, playing time is irrelevant because we are talking about HoW, and you are talking about overall played time. You don't even know how much time we played during that time and even that is irrelevant. I played plenty of time to understand the issues PvP was having. You are obviously biased here. No way PvP had variety. The point is not people using other weapons. Can you even read? I even told you I have seen other people use weapons that are not TLW and MIDA. Yes, a minority will use different weapons. Yeah, who cares. I'm not talking about that. Weapons being used does not mean other weapons are not being overused. I don't use MIDA, and yet it is being overused by other people. You don't prove anything saying 2-3 people used different weapons. There was a meta. You are just in denial. You would rather see different weapons with the same perks. Well, guess what, you don't make PvP decisions. Bungie does, and this is about how THEY do things. They don't want weapons being overused, and they don't want perks being overused. I don't know how many times I have to tell you this.

[quote]Dude, playing time is irrelevant because we are talking about HoW, and you are talking about overall played time. [/quote]Considering I've mained PvP since day one, and played about the same amount of it throughout the first 3 eras, I can honestly say that I played more in House of Wolves than you did. Me and my clan LIVED Trials in HoW, you've never gone flawless. I went to the Lighthouse TWENTY SIX times in Year one, yes, I would've seen a shitton more than you did in your 8 1/2 hours of Year 2 Trials. Yes I can see your first Trials game 5 months ago, [i]obviously that was during House of Wolves...[/i] Dumbass. [quote]You don't even know how much time we played during that time and even that is irrelevant. I played plenty of time to understand the issues PvP was having. You are obviously biased here. No way PvP had variety.[/quote]Once again, disagreed. Plenty of weapons were being used. Obviously there's a meta, there's ALWAYS a meta, but that doesn't mean that everyone is going to use said meta. [quote]The point is not people using other weapons. Can you even read? I even told you I have seen other people use weapons that are not TLW and MIDA. [/quote]You also said that everyone uses the same weapons, which is it? [quote]Yes, a minority will use different weapons. Yeah, who cares. I'm not talking about that. Weapons being used does not mean other weapons are not being overused. I don't use MIDA, and yet it is being overused by other people. [/quote]"A minority". LAUGHABLE. Plenty of weapons were used in House of Wolves, FACT. [quote]I don't use MIDA, and yet it is being overused by other people. You don't prove anything saying 2-3 people used different weapons. There was a meta. You are just in denial.[/quote]Of course I know there's a meta you f**king idiot, doesn't mean that everyone used it 24/7/365. Loads of people didn't use the meta in Crucible, and if you think they did, then you obviously didn't play very much. YOU are the one in denial. [quote]You would rather see different weapons with the same perks. Well, guess what, you don't make PvP decisions. Bungie does, and this is about how THEY do things. [b]They don't want weapons being overused[/b], and they don't want perks being overused. I don't know how many times I have to tell you this.[/quote]AND YET THEY HANDED OUT A PERFECTLY ROLLED SNIPER AND SHOTGUN, AND ONLY GAVE US ONE VIABLE OPTION FOR A SNIPER AND MACHINE GUN, AND THEN PROCEEDED TO NERF BOTH OF THEM BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T GIVE US ANY OTHER OPTIONS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

omg you are so dumb. you keep talking about every weapon that people used. this is about weapons being OVERused. again. OVERused. OVERused. OVERused. can you read? here, let me help you again. OVERused. OVERused. hope you get it this time. if some random dude used a pulse rifle only 0.1% use, who cares. it's completely irrelevant. you talk about facts. funny. I encourage you to read the update that talks about the weapon tuning for TTK. it shows how thorn destroyed every gun in PvP in terms of usage. but wait, according to you, there were plenty of primary weapons being used by a lot of people. LMAO Bungie also talks about how reforging was a problem for shotguns and how people abused it to get the perfect rolls, and they mentioned felwinter's lie specifically. but wait, I thought there were plenty of shotguns being used LOL read it. it's there. [quote]AND YET THEY HANDED OUT A PERFECTLY ROLLED SNIPER AND SHOTGUN, AND ONLY GAVE US ONE VIABLE OPTION FOR A SNIPER AND MACHINE GUN, AND THEN PROCEEDED TO NERF BOTH OF THEM BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T GIVE US ANY OTHER OPTIONS IN THE FIRST PLACE.[/quote] there were more options, actually, especially for MGs, and after the april update there are even more options. maybe they could have given us more options when TTK came out, but they are not perfect. you can't expect them you come up with a solution that will solve every problem. it's a process. removing reforging was the first step. in april they added more weapons, more options.

[quote]omg you are so dumb. you keep talking about every weapon that people used. this is about weapons being OVERused. again. OVERused. OVERused. OVERused. can you read? here, let me help you again. OVERused. OVERused. hope you get it this time.[/quote]Lol I already understood, with all the arguing I do on this forum, I probably use that word more than you do [quote]if some random dude used a pulse rifle only 0.1% use, who cares. it's completely irrelevant.[/quote]Much more than 0.1% used pulse rifles m80 [quote]you talk about facts. funny. I encourage you to read the update that talks about the weapon tuning for TTK. it shows how thorn destroyed every gun in PvP in terms of usage. but wait, according to you, there were plenty of primary weapons being used by a lot of people. [/quote]Maybe it did, but plenty of people used OTHER weapons. Of course Thorn was going to outdo other weapons, it was literally the most powerful primary in the game. Doesn't mean people had it equipped 24/7/365. [quote]LMAO Bungie also talks about how reforging was a problem for shotguns and how people abused it to get the perfect rolls, and they mentioned felwinter's lie specifically. but wait, I thought there were plenty of shotguns being used LOL read it. it's there.[/quote]Because people were using it for Shot Package (which was literally overpowered, and which is now non-existent in the game, so it isn't an issue anymore). And really there was, Matador, PC+1 and Judgment VI come to mind instantly because they were the same archetype. You keep saying there wasn't, but with all the games I played and gameplay I watched on Twitch, you're obviously wrong.... Again. [quote]there were more options, actually, especially for MGs, and after the april update there are even more options. maybe they could have given us more options when TTK came out, [/quote]No there actually wasn't. You got a Qullim's at 320 out of the box, it would've taken at least 3 320 heavy weapons to max out something like a Ruin Wake under the old infusion system. So no, there wasn't any other viable options for 99% of the playerbase who wanted to be 320 but who also do things outside of raids in their lives. [quote]but they are not perfect. you can't expect them you come up with a solution that will solve every problem. [/quote]Actually I can, and they did for the most part. They added more res-kill snipers so people didn't have to use 1KYS, and they fixed infusion so that people could bring other weapons to 320/335 easily. Aaaaand then they nerfed both weapons anyway because of how they USED to be. [quote]it's a process. removing reforging was the first step. in april they added more weapons, more options.[/quote]In Taken King, they also added a metric f**k ton of completely useless perks in order to dilute the loot pool. If you seriously think it's better for the game having a few people with god rolls and literally everyone else with absolute trash, you're actually delusional. This shitty RNG is driving people away fast along with all the other bullshit going on in the game. Crucible isn't even that diverse now lmfao. It's still the same guns over and over again, it's actually worse than how you say HoW was (even though you literally never played Trials in year one and therefore know nothing about it and your opinion is irrelevant) :^) I'm actually just gonna mute you now because typing that gave me a headache and I really don't want to put up with your stupidity anymore. You didn't play Trials in year one so you know nothing about it, you aren't worth any more of my time

Bullshit it wasnt. It was all the crybaby nerf herders that ruined the face paced action of the crucible. The connections were good and the gun fights were intense. Go read some more data that you dont even have access too bub.