[quote]you're complaining[/quote] This is your problem. I'm not complaining, I'm merely stating an opinion and sharing it with the community, hoping to get some discussions going.

Well I'm not sure were you're going to get too much discussion, shotguns in video games, save say Battlefield where shotgun are somewhat more realistic (sort of) have preformed pretty much the same, especially in more 3 dimensional shooters. the best example is Titanfall, where you're theory on "gun skill" what ever the hell that means, gets blurred, because usage of a shotgun outside of it's native (close quarters) environment meant mandatory and enhanced knowledge of game physics, map location, and character ability limits. And is very easy to argue that learning that takes more "skill" that pointing and shooting a full-auto bullet hose and maybe needing to shimmy side to side while doing so every so often. But that depends heavily from game to game. Take BO3 for example, Cod has never been a friend to shotguns. Assault rifles and sub machine guns regien supreme because the margin of error for getting a kill with those is far more forgiving than any shotgun in that game save made the Haymaker-12 (full auto shotgun) You're argument in Destiny get blurred as well since not everyone uses a conspiracy theory or party crasher because not all of us are *ssholes. I routinely get two shot kills because I use an Immobius (switched to Burden of Proof IX) both of which are max rate of fire shotguns. Regardless, Shotguns are still all about mobility, which is pretty much the point of close quarters combat. it just so happens to balance out in video games, this weapon has high OHK potential, that's not really our fault.

My main definition of gun skill is using the gun and getting kills with it, knowing their effective range, stats in general, precision hits, and recoil control. Shotguns don't need any of that besides range, which becomes redundant if you get too close anyway. As you and I agree on, movement skill is key to effectively using shotguns, but when you close that gap it's an easy kill because the ohk hitbox is extremely large.

Once again, that depends very heavily on the game it's self. but I am very pretty much disagreeing with you. Since Destiny Shotguns aren't realistic, that information is skewed and very similar to each other. There are only a few gun where you need to know this information in detail, like Invective or the Forth Horseman, and that's only for select situations like engaging a Bladedancer or other super. But the antithesis to that argument is a game like Battlefield where shotguns are more similar to their real life counterpart. By choice I use only shotguns in that game, on every map, no matter how big or flat. If you go in thinking you just need range, you will die, a lot. In a game dominated by full auto weapons, if i want to survive and use my favorite guns, I have to know the range of every shotgun with every ammo type, I have to know the spread each one (which does change, sometimes drastically) at hip fire and ADS, while standing, crouched, and prone. I need to know how many pellets each gun fires, and the damage drop off rate with each so i can approximate number of shells to kill and time to kill in order to calculate the chance of surviving a gun fire. Granted there's more, and this seems like a lot, but with everything you learn this stuff from experience. That being said i do disagree with your logic in some cases for Destiny, do you honestly believe using the shotguns i wield, i wait until im within OHK range to fire? That's just dumb, and impractical. I know the limits of my shotguns, they're range, they're damage drop off and recoil. If i didn't I'd have a very hard time using the fast rate of fire, low impact shotguns. Which i don't by the way. If i did i'd just be another Conspiracy Theory clone.

You disagree with me and that's ok. At least you put up some counter arguments. I might be a little biased since my first online pvp experience was destiny but yeah. I don't know anything about battlefield or titanfall. I am on #Destiny so my post is fine. But for real, why wouldn't you wait until you're in ohk range? You're just wasting ammo if you shoot from out of range.

Ah, that explains some things, I've been on the shotgun train since, ah god, never mind, thinking about it remind me that I'm old. And I'm not completely disagreeing with you because some stuff is accurate. Because my OHK kill range is very very short for a gun who's ammo has no travel time. The range of a shotgun is affected by 4 major things in video games. 1. Projectile spread 2. Overall damage 3. damage drop off rate 4. rate of fire These factors can affect many things, but in general (or theoretically) a tighter spread, higher damage, smaller drop off, and a faster rate of fire increase a shotgun's range. this of course changes from game to game, but for destiny it's true. What you see as a waste of ammo, is what i call trying to utilize the upper end of my shotgun's range. If i wait to fire inside my OHK range, it's often to late to kill anyone since other shotgun users can remain outside that range and survive. this is why you see so many high damage shotgun, and why i enjoy killing those people with my quote "bad" shotguns. Theoretically my high rate of fire shotgun has greater range with two shots, than the OHK range of high damage shotguns, a fact a liberally abuse to my advantage. Yes I'm aware on average I use twice as much ammo, but to me the trade off is worth, especially since i use shotgun defensively in Destiny more often than not. That being said, have you used Universal Remote? if so try to start engaging people at what you estimate is it's 2 hit kill range when the optimal situation arises, i assure you you'll be quite please with the result.

Thanks for the info and tips. I never really intended to use shotguns out of their ohk range due to the scarcity of special ammo now. I have used UR but yeah, I'm always within that ohk range.