Dear Bungie,
I understand the point of no revives in hard mode is to make hard mode hard (insert obligatory "that's what she said" jokelette around here somewhere). It is however abundantly obvious that it does no such thing. Depending on a variety of circumstances, if one or two teammates die in the first round or two of a given boss, we all know what happens.
Team wipe.
Team wipe, team wipe, and team wipe again until you get a clean** run.
I've no doubt most of us are familiar with the practice of team wiping if 1 or 2 of our teammates goes down during the first or second DPS round against a given boss (varies by boss & level of the team involved). Obviously if you get into the 3rd or 4th round (again, depending on the boss) you're more likely to stick it out to try finishing the boss off, rather than team wiping in those rounds. It is precisely that practice of team wiping that I find horribly boring and a massive waste of time, and I suspect others feel the same. Smarter HM mechanics could fix that.
This model for increasing the difficulty in hard mode is a design failure. It does not achieve what I assume is the goal of hard mode: a more challenging raid. Yes, no revives is more challenging, but only in a very limited sense. It is also boring, unimaginative, and a massive waste of time. I have every confidence that the good people at Bungie can come up with more interesting hard mode mechanics that will free us from the endless team wipe mechanic. Here's one to get you started:
At the war priest, if a team mate dies, they can be revived, but there is a 60 second revive timer. Also, every time a team mate dies, spawn three more major knights or throw an ogre in there. A simple mechanic that makes the event more challenging and frankly more interesting, opening opportunities for epic player "heroics" that become the lasting memories we all so enjoy.
A commenter below suggested having a major knight spawn on the orb of the person who went down. I think that's a great idea.
**Edit 1: This used to say "perfect" run. This has lead people to believe I'm saying a perfect run is necessary to complete any given phase of the raid which is of course not true.
***Edit 2: This is not an original idea. I know I either read or heard it someplace else. I believe it was from one of the prominent Destiny youtubers, but I can't be sure. If I find a source I'll like to it.
English
#feedback
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I would agree with this definitely for the Oryx fight. The other parts of the raid are A) Shorter B) Recoverable if someone goes down At oryx, if someone dies on the fourth round, wipe and start over. Completely. Where's the respect for the players' time? The mechanic makes five manning it almost unrecoverable. A total wipe can put a team back 20-30 minutes. And I can't tell you the last time I was in a group that did Oryx HM in one run. I would really really love to see the spreadsheet that showed the success rate at Oryx. I would guess the results are poor. I would be totally for a slow revive in that fight. If you can make it through one wave 5 manning then your team deserves to continue. That, or shorten the fight. The players can't speed it up - everything is time based. Either cut a round out of it, drop the shade of Oryx, or put in some waypoint, like complete two rounds and detonate and keep that as a checkpoint.
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2 RespuestasBungie should of just left nightfall alone, then ppl wouldn't be looking for a free pass and stand up to the challenge! [b][u][i]"Bring back blue flames!!![/i][/u][/b]
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2 RespuestasDisagree. No revives is the point of hard mode.
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1 RespuestaPs you shoulda made a Poll
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4 RespuestasI understand the frustration that comes with a team wipe (I'm still yet to crack Oryx on HM because someone always dies), the mechanic is there for a reason. Your idea is good though. It just further enforces good communication.
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3 RespuestasThat's why I wish I could use my self-Rez to revive a team mates.
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Personally I like the HM just the way it is. NM for all raids is a joke to me. It's too easy. If a team mate dies (leave him, he's dead to us anyway lol) we keep trying till it's obvious we got to wipe. But then again its fun when everyone plays at their A game level with no one dying. We can make an easy mode (revive in 30), normal mode (revive in 60) then Hard mode (no revive).
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1 RespuestaI agree somewhat since running VoG in year one on hard mode was a real pain because of the different leveling system that we have now. But as for the current raid that only really matters now, being King's Fall, if your gaming skills are superb and your light level is high enough then dying shouldn't be too much of an issue anyway. Granted if I had designed the raids I just would've put in more yellow bar enemies instead of no reviving yet that's just me.
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3 RespuestasStop dying. Problem solved
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2 RespuestasPlay smart
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I completely agree. No revives also makes any warlock that trips up heavily pressured to use self res the entire raid for that one reason. Bungie made a warlock exclusive exotic because so many warlocks hold into their Super like that. I'd rather there be revives but with added things to it. That way if someone falls it's not a whipe.
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16 Respuestas[quote]It does not achieve what I assume is the goal of hard mode: a more challenging raid. Yes, no revives is more challenging.[/quote] Lol, pick one. Not being able to revive is a central part of a hard raid. And you don't have to be "perfect" to avoid a team wipe. I've beaten Warpriest with 3, Golgoroth with 1, sisters with 4, and Oryx with 5. If you're so worried about dying, just run self-res.
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2 RespuestasHowever i agree with u this had been a Y2 problem as for crota and atheon i could beat the raid woth people dying without wiping
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2 RespuestasYou have a valid point but I don't think the answer is too just allow revives. There are no spawn areas and no revives does legitimately make individual performances more critical. But there isn't a reason that Bungie can't choose alternate mechanics depending on the specific fight. People revive at jumping puzzles after all and it doesn't really have to work that way. Having to wipe because people join prior to a fight is asinine.
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6 RespuestasNo, it's been like this since day one, it's what makes hard mode different from normal except for the level increase (insert obligatory git gud statement) cause u suck
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12 RespuestasI've 5 manned the last two rounds of hm Oryx.. one death never calls for a wipe.. and if you wipe that much you should rethink who you chose to do raids with ~someone unqualified for this
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9 RespuestasNo revives in hard mode solidifies the importance of individual performance. If a team member gets themselves killed, them and the rest of the team suffer the consequences. And one team member dying doesn't call for a wipe.
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self rez m8
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This is great. I hate the team wipe. It doesn't add anything to the game. Your idea is much better. So bump
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Or just... Don't die