Guy A bought Destiny. He has access to guns like [url=http://destinydb.com/items/3074713346-atheons-epilogue#14.q0evyv;15.0,0:1,0:2,0:5,0:6,0:7,0:8,0:9,0:10,0:13,0]Atheon's Epilogue[/url] (60 stability & no counterbalance). Guy B bought Destiny. He paid EXTRA for The Taken King. He has exclusive access to best-in-class guns like [url=http://destinydb.com/items/1173766591-doctrine-of-passing-adept#14.rj5hxs;15.2,0:3,2:4,0:5,0]Doctrine of Passing[/url] and [url=http://destinydb.com/items/3275294462-arminius-d#14.3ji9c4;15.0,2:1,2:4,0:5,6]Arminius-D[/url] (78-82 stability + counterbalance). No matter how hard guy A tries, he can't out-gun guy B because his auto rifles just aren't quite as good. They just don't have as much base stability, or even access to new perks like Braced Frame. Perfect Balance was nerfed hard, and guy A's auto rifles are really suffering now, recoiling all over the screen. [b]Guy A can't win because he didn't purchase more content. Pay 2 Win has been here the whole time, people. You decide if it's OK.[/b] Also where the -blam!- is all the old gear we paid for??? [b]EDIT:[/b] HOLY SHIT the idiocy on this forum is intense! I only suggested a theoretical scientific experiment that proves that Destiny technically has a slight bit of P2W in it, at least for rapid AR users such as myself. I only wanted to inform you to keep you thinking critically, on your toes! You must be wary of Destiny's future. And yes! I've bought all the content and I've been here since LAST January. I'm not complaining because I'm poor LOL. It's just that the business tactics are unnerving. Also Y1 players basically have no legendary gear right now besides the raid guns and worst-in-class queen weapons... Had I not been here before, I would have far fewer guns and less fun. I honestly think it's unfair for new players. [b]EDIT:[/b] I'll make it more clear. There is no balance between currently obtainable Y1 and Y2 weapons. If 2 new players buy the game but 1 pays extra for TTK, he will have a MASSIVE equipment advantage and shit on the other player in crucible. [b]Paying money for better guns. It's the definition of P2W.[/b] [b]EDIT:[/b] Also, Y1 armor was secretly nerfed and basically provides no stats now. You have to pass TTK paywall to even be competitive in Y1 PvE. [b]EDIT:[/b] I have a new example to make my argument clearer. Destiny is a car I bought. The developer released a newer, cooler car. It costs more money but it has slightly better performance. They also [i]smashed my car's windows and broke off a door[/i] to make the cooler car even more attractive in comparison. Is that not [url=http://www.amazon.com/Gift-Fire-Ethical-Computing-Technology/dp/0132492679]unethical business?[/url] [b]EDIT: [/b]Pay to win is when a developer arbitrarily nerfs guns that weren't even top tier while promoting new top tier guns to force players to spend money to stay competitive. That is exactly what happened between A. Epilogue and Doctrine. P2W isn't a matter of expansions. It's a matter of balance. You're an idiot if you don't understand that. If Doctrine didn't shit on Epilogue this post would be irrelevant, yet here we are. Not all MMO's need to be run by asshats. It is our duty as consumers to at least recognize these exploitative business practices. These practices that are only now possible because of DLC. DLC can be done wrong, but it CAN be done right. It's meant to [i]expand the base game, not destroy it.[/i]