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publicado originalmente en: I Main a Sunsinger.
2/16/2016 10:03:39 PM
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It isn't that the Sunsinger as an entire subclass is overpowered. It is more so that with a particular set up, which is run by literally every Sunsinger who hopes to be competitive. Firebolt Grenade, by itself is a pretty great grenade. With a 8m omnidirectional blast radius, three target caught within the blast are tracked by the Firebolt, and dealt 97 Damage. Touch of Flame provides all Grenades with a burning Damage over Time effect. This Dot ticks 5 times, dealing 7 damage per tick. Used in tandem with Firebolt, the initial Firebolt strikes for 97 damage, and an additional 35 Damage, for a total of 132 Damage. Viking Funeral, provide all DoT effects with an extension. The DoT for Touch of Flame is increase by 5 ticks, causing an additonal 35 damage, or as detailed "doubling the damage", for 167 damage. According to a few Destiny Guides, including the purchased guide at your local game store, without special equipment, the maximum health a guardian can have is 200, with Maximum Armour. Should a Warlock, who throws a Firebolt Grenade, catch an unfortunate Guardian within the large blast radius of their grenade, the target Guardian, should they be without a means of dodging, such as Shadowstep or Twilight Garrison, is Guaranteed to take 167 damage, with 33 Health remaining. At this point, anything in the Sunsinger's arsenal will kill the opposing Guardian, should the Warlock have landed at least two Assault Rifle Bullets, Two Pulse Rifle Bullets, a single Scout Rifle Bullet, Two Sidearm Bullets, a medium Ranged Shotgun Blast, their uncharged melee, and the list goes on. In addition, should a target be burning, with this setup, a Guardian's position is revealed to the Warlock for 10 seconds, providing not only a damage over time advantage, but also a strategic advantage for the Warlock, allowing for ambush, and cut off routes to be established, providing little, to no hope for most Guardians. Ironically, Thorn, a weapon much hated in year 1, was chastised for being too strong in its initial stages; however, Thorn in Year 1, dealt 86 damage for a critical, plus an additional 8 damage for 6 ticks, at a total of 156 damage. This was thought to be far too overpowered by every class, including Warlocks. The Particular setup for Warlocks actually deals far more damage than that of Thorn, and stands against the same arguments as the weapon. In reality, Warlocks do not want it nerfed, but fail to see that the numbers add up. Their ability is more powerful than that of a weapon, which has the same effects as their ability, which was nerfed for its sheer power. In the end, this combination is what needs the nerf, the Grenade has a blast radius that puts it on par with that of a rocket launcher, with abilities that put it on par with a year 1 Thorn. It is pretty OP.
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  • Bump

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  • It's a grenade not a gun ..its not like the thorn it has a cool down timer ,thorn had no cool down😂 Yr1 rockets would kill you in the blast radius firebolts only damage

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  • If that combo is OP, then so is the Nightstalker's Smoke-grenade combo. That by itself can kill you. No need for follow-up shots. Just stand there and watch them die slowly as they try to move away.

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  • No, I agree, that combo is indeed overpowered. In the End, Destiny is poorly Balanced.

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  • But you have to spend a grenade and Meier charge for it to work

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  • And for Firebolt Grenades to kill, you have to use 2 perks, and a follow-up shot. Do you see my point? Firebolt Grenades aren't powerful enough, even with those 2 perks, to kill anything. And by themselves, without the aid of those perks they're about as weak as Arc Bolt Grenades.

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  • People use the perk combo argument alot but really what are you losing? Longer radiance? You dont have your super every second. Double nades? If you arent using fusion nades than you'd be better off using touch of flame anyways. The wombo combo is a waste at best and if you go around tossing both melee and nades on one person you've purposely gimped yourself for the next fight. Not to mention its far easier to avoid than auto tracking nades.

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  • Editado por Soul_Eater_42: 2/17/2016 6:24:37 PM
    If half the perks weren't worthless, there would be more builds to go for. That goes for any of the Subclasses. There's always at least 3 perks in the Talent trees that no one uses because of how useless or underwhelming they are. If you nerf the only good perks they have, then you need to buff the rest. Otherwise, you're left with an unusable subclass.

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  • Op has 3 hunters Op furthers the cause that hunters whine Op is muted Don't be like Op

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  • Two sidearm bullets do over 100, of course a grenade would finish him off

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  • I'm pretty sure it's 98

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  • Editado por activeseven: 2/17/2016 3:54:25 PM
    A fine post you have written. But I noticed that you have not put the firebolt grenade combo into context with the Sunsinger as a class. By that I mean that you have not addressed the issue that sunsinger warlocks do not have a super that effectively grants easy kills. We don't get a gold gun with 3 one shot kills in the chamber, we get no Flaming Hammers, or anything like that. We don't even have supers that are as focused on getting kills like our own alternate subclasses like the Void Walker's Nova Bomb (instant kills) or the StormCallers super (insta kills) Our super pops and we're like....great, if I die then maybe I will choose to rez as long as no one camps my corpse (which they do) or gets in position to rez-snipe ( which they do ). So what we are left with, is arguable a great neutral game. Grenades that (by your own admission) can't one shot kill but we need to spend 3 class perks on it, and a flame shield. We don't have much to work with here man. Arguably the grenades are nice, no doubt, but from experience most people just run out of the way when they see a grenade coming. So let's try not to paint the picture that every single firebolt grenade that gets thrown amounts to kills, that is [b]very [/b]far from the truth. I don't mind the discussion about possibly balancing or tweaking what few options we have here, but keep one thing in mind please:[b] for every grenade that burns you to death, remember the total absence of a sunsinger's 'insta-kill' super from the match as well[/b] Also, in your comparison to Thorn you totally disregarded the fact that the DoT effect for that gun triggered for every bullet that hit.

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  • The thing is, I am not against the Sunsinger alone. Yes, I have three Hunters, before that? I had one of each, and before that, I had three Titans, before that, I played three Warlocks. Ultimately, yes, I played every class, levelling each class three times to maximum. I have seen every single fault, of every single class. This was a topic about Sunsingers, so I didn't say anything in regards to the other two classes, because that would be stupid. But here we have all the people bitching about three of the same class. Terrible, just terrible. Regardless, to get back on track, Hunters are definitely not without their flaws and OP abilities. Nightstalkers have their "wombo combo" which personally, I find to be cheap. Immobility, with the area of effect Greandes, or Void Wall, and the Perk to make it all last longer? Poor design. Shadowstep never really made any sense either. You are turning invisible, not invincible. Seems like a bungie employee misheard, and they kept it anyway. Throwing knives are still glitches. If you ADS and then throw a knife shortly after, you keep the Aim Assist of the weapon, which equals easy throwing knives. Golden Gun should not have been a three round insta kill gun. If anything, your former gun should become golden for additional damage, expending super energy quickly as fired. Backstab on Hunters sometimes works for the front. You can blink grenades off of you. Titans' shoulder charge should expend a melee charge. Fist of havoc should not create a cylinder of damage above the Titan. Overcharge as a punch, should not have range. Lightning grenades should not be as long reaching as they are. This list can go on and on. The only two sub classes that have any real balance are Voidwalker and Defender. Everything else, it feels like they made each perk for the subclasses, one by one, without any thought as to how they interact.

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  • Self res - 1 hit melee. Firebolt = absolute critical. Falling damage will kill. Plus you get damage resistance. Doing self res and getting sniped is literally the same as doing any other super and getting sniped in the animation. Dont go saying self res is a bad super. It is you who are bad at using it. Overall sunsinger doesnt need a nerf. Firebolt plus burn needs a slight nerf or an ease of use reduction. Currently its too good and too easy. If it had a delay like arc bolt so it would be easier to dodge thatd be fine. But its just too easy to use for how much damage it does.

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  • Editado por activeseven: 2/17/2016 5:14:53 PM
    [quote] Dont go saying self res is a bad super.[/quote] I neither said, nor believe that. I only wanted the grenades to stay in context of, and compared with the absence of an instal-kill super. [quote] Overall sunsinger doesnt need a nerf.[/quote] That's my feeling as well. [quote]Firebolt plus burn needs a slight nerf or an ease of use reduction. [/quote] Not a nerf, but a tweak. Just needs a shorter burn but same damage numbers. Only legit issue I see is that players are "taken out of the game" for a bit longer then they like.

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  • And what's the argument on skip grenades because those do the same damage without a build.

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  • Unless they split in that case it's a much lower value.

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  • Which they always do

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  • You got your info for thorn wrong

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  • I am certain that was the Year 1 info from the Destiny Player's guide I purchased from EB games. Should it be outdated, would you care to provide the source of your correct information, so that alterations can be made?

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  • But in reality hunters can wombs combo and if lightning grenade for titan full on hits it becomes guardian bowling

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  • All in all, the game is still very unbalanced. These ultimate combos, loadouts and such really shouldn't exist to the extent that they do. The Hunter and Titan both have their OP stuff as well.

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  • You can only shoot one "thorn grenade" once every 25 second or so.

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  • So, in a trials round, you can throw maybe 5 of those (if in overtime) that do this? The only thing that needs to change is to reduce the damage done by 1 maybe 2 per tick and apply the burn quicker, so what would happen? If the warlocl sees you, you still have just as much time to be killed by them, should you escape, you recover that bit quicker meaning you're not out of the game for an 8th of the entirety of the round. Seems fair to me imho.

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  • From a Titan, appreciate the write up. Very interesting

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