I have zero issue with any shotgun in this game, but as it stands they're going to dominate PvP until Bungie nerf them into the ground. I don't believe they should be nerfed, but they will because Bungie have no idea how to fix their weapons without just ruining whatever is most used.
The reason shotguns are broken is not because they're too good, it's because Fusion Rifles are broken and Bungie refuse to acknowledge that they've completely boned them.
There are quite a few factors that add up to ruining Fusion Rifles.
1) Bungie killed their effective range. Fusion Rifles used to be effective further than shotguns, which made sense since they needed to be charged and Shotguns could unload 2-3 shots in the time it took to charge.
This means once an enemy is within shotgun range, the Fusion Rifle user is pretty hosed.
2) Fusion Rounds have travel time. This means that [i]any[/i] lag whatsoever and a direct hit only registers as partial. I shot an enemy point blank with a Fusion Rifle on Memento tonight and they had 1/3 health left.
S*** like that happens [i]all the time[/i].
Of all the weapons in the game, Fusion are the most affected by lag and combined with the range nerfs, there's no time to get a second shot off if the first doesn't fully register.
3) Anyone who's ever used Trip Mines or Lightning Grenade probably have noticed that if you throw one at an enemy in PvP and are killed before it hits, it will de-spawn.
It's obnoxious as hell and I'm surprised I've never seen it brought up before. I know I'm not the only one to throw a Lightning Grenade at a wall behind a team capping only to get killed and have it vanish.
Well it's not just grenades that are affected.
Fusion Rifles suffer the same glitch. If you're killed right after getting a shot off, any part of the beam that has not connected de-spawns.
This is completely broken and fubar.
Because a shotgun round is fired instantaneously, even if the person dies, their full shot registers.
If a shotgun and Fusion Rifle user both shoot each other at the exact same time, the shotgun user will live and the Fusion Rifle user will die 99 times out of 100.
Again, the shotgun kill is instant, but since Fusion have travel time, most of the time you end up with the front of the beam hitting for a couple rounds of 46 damage, barely scratching the enemy.
It's complete bs that if a shot is fired, the full shot doesn't reach its target. It should not matter if you die after shooting, if the trigger has been pulled, the entire shot should hit home.
I don't want to see shotguns nerfed. In fact I hope we never see another nerf, but Fusion Rifles just are too disadvantaged right now.
Between the charge time and the beam travel on top of that, the only thing that put them on even ground was their range. I've used practically every Legendary FR in this game in PvP and they are currently without a doubt the worst they've ever been.
Any current or former FR fans agree and has anyone else noticed the rounds de-spawning when you die?
-
Shotguns are fine, the maps are just too small.
-
To be honest I think the problem isn't all shotguns, but a few that have range stats too high. I've been shotgunned from 25 feet away by The Chaperone more times than I care to admit. Pisses me off. Max shotgun range for a 1 shot should be 12- 15ish feet. In addition, yeah, let's be real. Sidearms and fusion rifles aren't used in Crucible for a reason. They can't compete with the others. I sort of feel like weapons in general kill a little too fast in Crucible. Players having comparatively a little more health might help as well.
-
2 RespuestasEditado por Benzene21: 11/18/2015 9:20:29 PMNope. Fusions are fine. The last nerf (upgrade 2.0) was not necessary but even with that they can still be pretty good. Learn how to use one. There are good fusion rifles out there. Use the vortex with braced frame (the vendor version doesn't have this perk). If you still have trouble with it, then fusions are not for you. Simple as that. A tip: fusion rifle stability is more important than range. The range of most fusion rifles is fine. I really don't get why people complain so much about the range of fusion rifles. You are looking at the wrong stat. I agree that the glitch must be fixed. You have no idea how many times I failed to get a kill because my fusion shot got canceled after I died.
-
3 RespuestasEditado por Hektik: 11/23/2015 7:22:32 PMOne of the big problems I see in Destiny crucible after playing halo5 is that special weapons have too much ammo Special weapons in cruicible are freebees. Special weapons are supposed to be powerful, that's what it's important to control the map well enough to control their spawn. Also only one person is running around with them typically. Destiny is trying to shoehorn crucible into tradional MP and breaks all the rules and thus an imbalanced cluster-blam!-
-
3 RespuestasAs an FR user I completely agree
-
4 RespuestasIf the Bungie sandbox testers could find a way to make it so FRs counter the shotgun-rush meta without making FRs the go-to, I would be happy with that Crucible meta. That would make special weapon use in the Crucible more diverse.
-
4 RespuestasI disagree with the fusion rifle argument.... the issue with this game to me is that its far to easy to run a secondary as a primary. Secondary weapons are for secondary situations. The reason fusion rifle range nerf was appropriate and a shotgun range nerf is nessesary is because ppl run around with a secondary out wayyyy to much. To fix this issue special ammo should spawn far less and give out less in crucible. Thats the only way to fix the shotgun problem without a range nerf.
-
10 RespuestasEditado por clancypuppet: 11/19/2015 4:25:21 PMAt least snipers take skill! Lame ass shotgunners with no skill charging and mashing the shit out of R2 haha give me a break! NERF the shotguns as far into the ground as possible then I'll shoot the tombstone with my sniper from a 1000 yards out!!!
-
I have to admit. I'm one of the shotgun users, that's because it's between a shotgun and a sniper. Sights are usually already on me when I use a sniper so I have to tactically switch weapons. Although, most of you disagree with it being "tactical". However, with the new changes to weapons I "Hope" fusion rifles will be more viable.
-
They can hit you outside of side arm range too.
-
Shotguns broken no just remove range finder problem solved
-
Shotguns aren't broke, players are! Learn to take cover or duck bitches. Oh, and learn to run the other way.
-
Is English not your first language? Just curious
-
You're wrong about the grenades. My favorite kill was a quad-from the grave on B in Exodus Blue. If I hadn't swapped my ps4 HDD I'd post here but the video is long gone.
-
I agree with you on the bolt de-spawn. The range is about 75% what it should be. The biggest problems are map design and secondary ammo availability. The map design flaws are due to high movement speeds. Its easy to stay in cover and close gaps, thus the shotguns strength. Because of the fusions charge time and range it becomes more of a defensive weapon. As an assaulting weapon it looses out to both the shotgun and sniper.
-
1 RespuestaHas radar, dies to shotguns. Gimme a break
-
As usual, you don't have any idea what you're talking about when you touch PVP. Shotguns are not broken because fusion rifle aren't good enough (what does it even mean? You didn't even talk about shotguns), that's just one of the possible counters rotfl. Idiot. Shotguns are broken for the range and the speed of the jump/movements, that are particularly increased than other fps. That logically ensues destiny's shotgun can't be compared to a classical shotgun. If you add the cqc map design it's clear that usually the shotgun is the best choice. NOT BECAUSE FUSION RIFLES SUCK.
-
With how the ttk is in this game all specials which are selective ohk are op I can't think of any way to address it but it's the truth.
-
More snipers than shotguns in pvp right now.
-
1 RespuestaFunny, you say shotguns dominate PvP but I see far, far more snipers in every game type since TTK launched.
-
Who wants to use a gun that has a delay from trigger pull to shot fired. Insane.
-
2 RespuestasThere are a lot of people who think they are the golden shinny balls at PVP but all they do is run round with Shotguns particularly in most of the new maps which all seem designed to aid this bullshit. I've lost count of the number of times I've been 1 shotted from 20ft away. Fusion's are useless and broken, i've had my 310 Telesto land on plenty of people and after the explosions they're still going. I heard someone say they are great for holding down and cutting off areas, bullshit, tell that to a grenade or slide shotgun.
-
well dont worry because holy jesus are they getting destroyed in decembers patch...i know i rag on them like alot but some of it is just to damn harsh i just say get rid of the felwinter type of shotguns but hey what can you do
-
2 RespuestasMy problem is with one hit kills. Although it is fun to be on the giving end, it's not at all fun to be on the receiving end.
-
Editado por HyperVigiIant: 11/20/2015 3:44:02 AMShotguns can feel cheap to use because of the high time to kill of primary weapons and the confined maps. Blink makes it easy to cover ground and reach opponents quickly with a shotgun.
-
I don't know about the despawning beams because sometimes I get postmortem medals with my fusion rifle. As far as buffing the range of fusion rifles vs nerfing shotguns, both have merits and demerits. I agree that avoiding another nerf would be fantastic. Nerfing is just the lazy way to balance things honestly. When it comes to fusion rifle range, the fall off is very noticeable once your target steps out of that sweet spot. But that sweet spot is [i]just[/i] outside of shotgun range. It takes timing and a lot of luck to get that burst off just as the shotgunner steps into that range, which is what you don't like about it. And the fusion rifle lover (thank you Plan C) in me whole-heartedly agrees with that. However, another part of me is noticing how I am killing players left and right, whether they are using shotguns or not, with a fusion rifle (I still use them because they're fun). I am saying to myself: "Man, if this thing had a little more range, it'd be freaking OP." Granted players should be careful in their positioning so they avoid getting a face full of buckshot or energy beams (might start calling them noodle guns cause they shoot deadly noodles) but do we want fusion rifles to have the range to burst someone who is standing on the other end of those bridges in Bannerfall? It needs to be done carefully, or maybe the damage drop off should be like auto rifles (as I say that, I am thinking that is bad idea). On the nerfing side of things, I share many players' frustrations with shotguns. Some of them (Conspiracy Theory-D, I am looking at you and you're just one of the problems) are just obnoxious because they kill me from ranges that, let's be honest, shotguns shouldn't be able to. I mean, I am on the opposite wall in one of those rooms in Bannerfall and they still kill me. They should at least have to take one step forward to pull that off. Removing Rangefinder completely would be a terrible idea, however I don't think nerfing the range bonus on shotguns down a notch would be too far out there. In fact, maybe they can introduce a shotgun Rangefinder perk so they don't have to nerf all the weapons with Rangefinder. Balance is VERY hard to achieve in a game with unique classes and with such a wide variety of weapons. But it needs to be done. (Just got killed by Sleeper last night while HoS was ups. Not even mad cause it was a fusion rifle)