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8/5/2014 4:48:29 PM
171
Raids, Don't Give In Bungie!
So I've been reading a whole lot of articles about why not having matchmaking for raids is a bad thing and I just can't agree, here's why.
Bungie has stated they don't want this to be content people can just throw themselves at over and over again until some form of success slowly begins to occur (put that in my own words though, not Bungies). They want this to be content that takes effort to organize, if you can organize a team of people to play at the same time you gain a CHANCE at having the organization it'll take to beat this content.
This content is not for every player, I'm sorry everyone feels entitled to ever bit of content that comes with a game but that's not how it works in reality, sorry. Yes you paid for the game, and they are giving you access to the content, the same level of access they are giving EVERYONE else. Whether or not you as a player have the time or patience to access that content the way they set it up is on you.
If everyone where able to access this content whenever they want the next series of complaints you'd hear flooding from everywhere is likely how the content is too hard, and how can they expect a group of 6 strangers to work together at such a high level of play and beat this content.
Also, Bungie has provided us tools to group together and find players for this content. If you plan to raid then you clearly have an internet connection, hell it's required for the game last I checked. So don't tell me you can't hop on the internet for a few minutes and post on the forums, join a group / clan or something to find the players you need to access this content.
Don't be lazy and expect the world to be given to you, if Bungie adopted this lazy attitude of self entitlement they wouldn't be making the great games they do, and they'd be giving us trash like many other developers do, but they aren't. So you can't be either, and if you are, you don't deserve to access the content, it's not meant for you, no matter how that makes you feel on the inside, it's true, deal with it.
That is all. Thanks for the great game Bungie, I really hope you don't back down to all the heat your getting about this. Just think how much heat the Demon's Souls / Dark Souls series got for being so hard and now it's a cult classic. You already have the fan base, the people complaining over this will still buy the game, and they aren't the people that'll be around months, years from now anyways, so don't make the game about them. Do what you knows best, I'm sure you will.
English
#Destiny
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72 RepliesEdited by DivineJustiniaV: 8/6/2014 3:19:14 PMExpecting to play a particular game mode that is included for everyone across all platforms is hardly the same as being "entitled" [quote]that's not how it works in reality[/quote] Good thing this is a video game amirite?
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1 ReplyThere are so many people complaining about matchmaking!!! Problem solved!! Make a clan called #complainers and you'll have plenty of people to group up with for a raid. That's like 50% of the people on the forums. Biggest clan ever!
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2 RepliesI don't understand, but yet I do. I know it's better to get a group togwther, and do the raids with people you know to be more organized, rather than throw yourself into matchmaking. But even if there was a matchmaking system implemented into the game for raids, nobody is forcing anyone to search in matchmaking to play them. Couldn't you [b]still[/b] get your friends together and play without matchmaking, the way it would be if there wasn't matchmaking for it? That way people win on both ends of the argument.
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Well said.
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6 RepliesHigh level raids only for friends? They should open it for clan members, too!
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I agree with everything you said. GT: xlMRCHUCKLESlx (the l are L)
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2 RepliesI agree with you in that I want the Raids to be pure and uninhibited and to stay as true to Bungie's original intentions as possible. But I don't like how presumptuous some of this sounds. You can't just label people lazy because they want matchmaking to be an option. Some players have genuine concerns about being able to get the most out of the Raids due to time constraints, whether it's kids or work or whatever, and don't want the chore of having to keep tabs on friends and try to arrange suitable times etc to sit down and play the Raids.
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6 RepliesI agree with the sentiments of this OP if not necessarily agreeing with the tone of the argument presented. This game is a work of art. An amazingly talented and hardworking group of people worked for years to provide the best experience that they know how to deliver. They made some decisions about the content they want to deliver and as the artist, it is fully their prerogative to do so. Saying that a decision we the public have known about for a very short time and asking the artist to alter their creation (before we have even experienced it!) for a matter of convenience is naive at best and disingenuous and insulting at worst. Tuning content for a group of 6 coordinated, properly geared, and properly diverse classes and specs is a gargantuan process. Asking it to be accessible to any 6 players who happen to log in close to the same time is NOT even remotely close to the same type of content and as the artist, that is NOT the work of art that Bungie is presenting. There will always be critics, but in the end, it is the artists choice and if we are actually seeking to appreciate the art, then we owe it to ourselves and to Bungie to accept it and provide CONSTRUCTIVE criticism to better the experience but only AFTER we have actually had the chance to try it the way they provided. If it is my Destiny to never play the raids because I am not able to find and coordinate a friend group capable, then so be it, that is in me, not on Bungie.
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Personally, in the mode 'raid there must be Matcmaking, and' freedom 'of any player, from more' poor to more 'good and needs to gamble, then' I will 'to decide if I want to play with certain players, but there must be . .Even Cod Zombies in there 'matcmaking, and to finish the story you have to cooperate, but we had fun playing with strangers and did amicizia.Bungie points to the social, and then I go out with 1 mode' as the raid (castrated) .House beta I 'liked, but this lack of Matcmakig in Raid, who I feel, I'm pretty angry.
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2 RepliesComing from 8 man matchmaking in FFXIV, and before that coming from Matchmaking in GuildWars 2, I can tell you guys now that without a doubt, matchmaking is hell on earth. It is primarily made for players to (hopefully) find a party and (hopefully) have people know are geared and know what they are doing. When my clans/free companies in those games were not on, it was 1/100 chances to find a group to conquer the end game content. Over and over and over until finally, you find a group to complete it. I spent HOURs of gametime trying to complete tough content with randoms (POG's) and it was miserable. Just a word to the wise, you do not want Matchmaking and with this diverse community at your fingertips on forums and clans here, you can easily find a group of people you want to raid with. -Snap
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5 RepliesI doubt they will give in. The only time i can ever recall bungie changing something in their past games is if either A) it was some sort of glitch or B) Something in the game isn't working as intended. Bungie doesn't have a track record of bending to the community demand. As a result every game they dropped has been a huge success.
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Homo....
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2 RepliesMatchmaking needs to be an option for people who want it. If you do not like risking being paired with someone lacking your video game skills, do not use matchmaking. Build your crew. Do your thing. Too often have I seen people met with absurd resistance when trying to access endgame content because they do not meet the arbitrary, elitist requirements of some self-important clique. The challenges should be the same for everyone. If your skill gets you through a fight in one try that takes me a million, that is my problem. This game should allow me to spend my time and my resources, in this regard, the way I want to. My utilization of matchmaking should be of no hindrance to your established group. I may make it through end game content and that should not be a problem for any other player. This all just makes me very suspicious of the intent of those bent against matchmaking. One of the hurdles of end game content should not be a popularity contest, and I really believe that is what this is all about.
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12 RepliesEdited by TheKFDCase: 8/6/2014 5:51:37 PMHere are three statements by Bungie's own Mr. Luke Smith that destroy any arguments against including match-making (MM) for raids: "'Hard mode will take longer,' he continued. 'Once your group learns the encounters, you will be able to get through the Raid significantly faster than three hours.' Smith appeared to play down the fact that you'll need to befriend those who enter into a raid with you, stating just that the 'disparate people who come together to try" a raid will be able to view it as "a team-building exercise'. Raids will be made easier to beat in several sessions by the ability to store your insertion points each week - meaning your group can break off and rejoin at a later time." (source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-07-31-destinys-six-player-raids-can-only-be-played-with-friends) So, to sum it up: 1) The challenge that some people are clamouring for as an excuse to not include match-making (MM) for raids is said by Mr. Luke Smith himself to quickly change and wear down. Strike one. 2) Mr. Luke Smith also plays down the aspect of needing to be tightly-knit friends in order to be able to complete raids successfully. He goes on to describe it as a team-building exercise. That leads us to the question (again) as to why not implement MM which allows people to meet other people and learn (quickly) how to play together (as well as whether they are a good match). Strike two. 3) Raid groups will be able to save their progress in raids at various points over the course of the week that any given raid is active. (Raids reset after 1-week, apparently.) That eliminates the argument that randoms/PUGs etc. will ruin it all by just bailing. They won't. This is now confirmed by Bungie via Luke Smith - the man in charge of developing this aspect of the game. Strike three. Conclusion: Not having MM in "Destiny" is nonsense, and an *incredibly* poor decision with what seems to be a regrettable lack of foresight.
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1 ReplyRaid with MM - Complete the MM raid (a nerfed version of the real raid so randoms will be able to complete it) and receive an emblem, or something that doesn't matter. (2 hrs max gameplay) Raid without MM - Complete the raid at the difficulty level Bungie intended and receive rare/exotic gear you can't get anywhere else in the game. (hours possibly days of planning, coordinating and playing) That is the only way I'd be ok with MM implemented for raids.
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1 ReplyLet me preface this by saying yes this is an MMO comparison. Anyone that has played World of Warcraft as long as I have knows that when it first came out it was freaking hard. 40 man raids, no matchmaking for them. yeah try to get those together consistently enough to do anything in the RAID itself. Then Blizzard saw a problem, there were 90% of players not seeing the content they created. Over the years Blizzard added matchmaking to each level of content so even the casual player could play it. Some people complained and some people were elated, but everyone kept playing(for the most part). The problem came when they instituted Looking For Raid. In order to ensure the Casual player could progress through the content they had to dumb down the content, THIS IS NOT GOOD!! No one that works hard at something wants it handed to someone else for a quarter of the work. But then it became just an extra step to serious raiders when they altered gear level to match the content level(well at least they tried). Everyone was ok for a while. Guess what, they decided to change it again and add FLEX system allowing groups of different sizes to enter the RAIDs and scaling the difficulty with the RAID group size. So the evolution of their RAID now has LFR, FLEX, 10 regular, 10 man Heroic, 25 man Regular and 25 man Heroic for each freaking RAID. Although I am not against a MM system, if Bungie ever does institute it I hope beyond hope that they do not alter the difficulty of it in doing so. Let the casual player understand what it really takes to get through the end game content and not just let them skirt by just so they can see it. That is all I got for now. thank you.
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1 ReplyYou've read all the threads complaining about the lack of matchmaking, but didn't bother reading the threads complaining about the threads that are complaining about the lack of matchmaking?
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12 RepliesIt's sad that the one thing I still enjoyed about console games versus PC games seems to be a thing of the past. Now games and people playing games on consoles are joining the elitist groups that take gaming too seriously. I can't believe in a video game I read people talking about dedication and hard work and organization outside the game....this seriousness and intolerance makes me miss my offline SNES. Online gaming brought us good things, drop in drop out coop, bigger worlds to explore but has in life it's flawed because it's filled with people. Then there came social media and somehow games are becoming a part of it. Need a group, go on forums, need a map, here is an app. I miss having self contained games I could enjoy without people that forget it's just gaming, it's meant for fun, not self validation or social challenges. I miss the time when gamers were considered geeks, now gamers are bullies, it makes me sad.
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7 RepliesMaybe it would be cool to add like a Spot on the tower where people who want to do raids hang out. So if I want to do a raid I meet at the Purple Ball and wait. Once we have a group, Onto the Raid!
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8 RepliesEdited by Demiurgic Dogma: 8/6/2014 6:32:51 PM[quote]This content is not for every player, I'm sorry everyone feels entitled to ever bit of content that comes with a game but that's not how it works in reality, sorry. Yes you paid for the game, and they are giving you access to the content, the same level of access they are giving EVERYONE else. Whether or not you as a player have the time or patience to access that content the way they set it up is on you.[/quote] Really? I would wager from all the articles I've read and the responses on here that it's a big portion of the gaming community who will feel ostracized if they have no means of doing raids. You should really re-word that part of your post. If there is no MM, then Bungie needs to do something else to make sure as many people as possible can participate and enjoy this part of the game. Otherwise it may hurt their sales in the future and that's BAD for everyone. The course it's going at the moment, I feel like raids will represent an elitism atmosphere, no one really wants that, right? Or am I just blowing this out of proportion? EDIT: When I said everyone, I didn't mean everyone completing the raid, let those teams full of randoms fail but don't exclude them.
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There is one piece of info in here that I couldn't agree more with, and that's Bungie gave us tools to build our own groups and essentially expand our own gaming networks. It's their way of keeping up with the times and providing a game that increases some type of personal skill of the gamer. If someone was following my group and needed another player, I would jump in to give them a hand in a heartbeat. That's not even if they were a clan member. It just takes asking to get some help.
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They should have a bar in the tower called "The Lonely Raider" where people can hang out to find people to party up for raids (no party chat allowed inside). It would make it easier then having to post on forums ect looking for people to join you. People would/should only be there for one reason, to search for a team of randoms to party up to raid.
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lol, I cant wait till these raids come out and people blow through them like dust in the wind. ALL THE HYPE!!!!!! Then we get to hear the hardcores complain about how easy the raids are. It will happen. What was hard in the beta?
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1 ReplyMy only problem is if raids are the only way to get exotics. I hope you can still get them from the cryptarch come full release.
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Cheese "coordination" map mechanics just give the illusion of strategy (bunch of nerds thinking they're navy seals). Sounds like a desperate attempt to save an instance shooter parading around as an open world MMO.
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Edited by LoftyLion: 8/6/2014 7:34:21 PMAt first when I heard the news that there wouldn't be matchmaking I was in the "make matchmaking happen camp!" And then I got to thinking and listening to some of the arguments here on the forums, and I have to say matchmaking would dilute the experience of raids. I understand that people don't have five other people online with them at all times, but hear me out. Co-operation is going to be key in this, with a lack of voice chat with random people it would prove difficult to communicate via pointing or dancing. (The whole no voice chat thing I have no problem with, nor would I have a problem if they implemented it.) Then there's the whole experience of it all. The raid should feel like a feat that only a few are able to face and even fewer are able to accomplish. It should feel like something that's memorable to the participants, an experience through a gauntlet that rewards preparation via gear and calculated team selection. Rewarding those that are capable of uniting to overcome a common obstacle. Now with that said, there are those fellow gamers out there that will not be going in with a six man fire team due to a multitude of reasons. Some will have to find fellow Guardians along their journeys, while others prefer to be lone wolves that don't mind the occasional match made groups that Destiny offers. I fully understand where people are coming from when they are asking for matchmaking for these raids, for most games nowadays cater to those that prefer matchmaking (Destiny among them via Strike Missions etc.) and rather enjoy themselves in that way. Now my challenge to you fellow Guardians who are often lone wolves, is to try something a little new. Come here on the forums perhaps and make yourself a little fellowship! Or perhaps try to start up a party with people through XBL or PSN! To end this little ramble I personally like this approach [i]now[/i],for there is an emphasis on co-operation and an emphasis on the rewards of said co-operation in a level that we often don't see now in shooters. There's my two cents on the matter, I know not all of you will agree with what I've said and that's alright! Cheers!
