[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] FirewalI I've seen numerous amounts of threads with people talking about how flag juggling is a glitch/exploit and how it's great that it's been fixed in Reach. May I ask why people suggest that it's a glitch? I know there are alot of intelligent users here so I'm looking for well thought out replies. [quote][b]This thread may not apply to you![/b][/quote] Bear in mind. > Flag juggling was around in Halo:CE > Flag juggling was around in Halo 2 > This 'glitch' wasn't fixed for Halo 3 [b]Irrelevant. History/Tradition is not a sound foundation for any arguement. Ever.[/b] > Is it possible that Bungie has changed this to cater for the majority of Halo's lesser skilled players? (imo Brigadiers and below) Note: That's my opinion, I'm entitled. [b]Personal opinion. Irrelevant. Also, opinion is based on flawed premise.[/b] > Is it possible that Bungie hates Competitive aspects of gaming and is trying to wipe it out of their games slowly? [b]Supposition. Also an incorrect one, considering Bungie's history and attitude.[/b] -Flag Juggling in itself is a skill. Not anybody can perform said action quickly and effectively. There is a huge skill gap when it comes to flag juggling which shows how much skill it takes. [b]Not only irrelevant, but incorrect. Flag running is hardly difficult in any sense of the word, and the "skill gap" of which you speak does not exist.[/b] Not to mention that you are constantly reminded of the flag runner's position as the flag icon is showing their path. [b]This isn't a drawback at all. No map has a "hidden" route to take back to your base. A quick glance around the map will tell most anyone where the flag went; and since players know your destination, they can simply pick a point along that line to intercept the flag.[/b] -Compare your flag juggle to a Major League Gaming professional player who can toss it twice as far as you, promotes skill while still maintains a balanced game. [b]Incorrect. Simple trial and error will instruct as to the best angle to throw flag. Also, difference is minimal.[/b] -If the other team manages to get a cap on you while you're all re-spawning and he's flag juggling, it's your fault not theirs. They have map control, they maintain map control, they benefit from their skills. [b]The fact that flag scores can occur in less than 10 seconds on many maps due to flag juggling is a flaw. You don't even need a team at that point - you're simply ot of range by the time anyone can react, BRs/DMRs or not. "Setting Up" isn't a skill either - a quick Forge tour will tell you where to look for enemy players, as will simple game time. In addition spawnkilling/camping is not a skill, and is generally regarded as a highly disrespectful and outright unsportsmanlike tactic -try it most any game where there is a Vote Kick/Host Kick option, and you won't find yourself playing for more than a round. Shooting fish a in barrel does make you good.[/b] - It's not hard to stop a flag juggler unless your team has been completely annihilated and is on spawn, or you're the kind of person who thinks that playing good defense in CTF means camping your own base. [b]Perhaps not Vahalla or Sandtrap or Avalanche, but any medium/small map allows flag jugglers to make it more than 1/2 to 3/4s of the way across the map before the defense can react.[/b] - CTF with flag juggling adds pace to the game and is fair. Whether it's an exploit or not isn't even really relevant. It adds to gameplay. (I've never seen any evidence that it is an exploit) [b]It is an exploit. Flag Carriers are intended to be slower and heavier while carrying the flag, in addition to having to drop the flag to defend themselves if needed. Flag juggling creates a system wherein the flag carrier has no drawbacks whatsoever. Also, Halo's pace is its own. It is not a fast-paced game. It is not a slow-paced game. It falls nicely between the two, with its own ups and downs. It is not designed to constantly move at one speed or the other.[/b] - Interestingly, [i]walking[/i] the flag takes [i]a lot more skill[/i] when flag juggling is a part of the game! If walking is the only way to travel with the flag, then it's always expected, but if juggling is more the norm, then you can occasionally make great plays walking the flag, because people aren't as prepared for it. Ever seen a pro walk the flag in an MLG event? It doesn't happen often (and seems to happen more on Narrows than on any other map), but when it works, it's bad ass. Always a clever play. Removing flag juggling removes this kind of cleverness. [b]Contradictory statement. As long as flag juggling exists, there is never a good reason to walk the flag. You lose absolutely nothing by doing it, and gain nothing by walking. Its not a "clever" play to walk to the flag, its just insulting the other team.[/b] [quote] [/quote] [quote][/quote][/quote] Flag carriers are intended to be weaker and require escort, not be able to run the flag entirely by themselves with only minor assistance from their team. As it stands, one only need to get the flag a bit out of the enemy base to win. How fiar is it when only need to touch and move the flag 5 feet in order to prevent the enemy from returning it? [Edited on 05.05.2010 7:37 AM PDT]