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4/27/2010 10:37:51 AM
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How is Flag Juggling a glitch/exploit? [Voice your opinion!]
I've seen numerous amounts of threads with people talking about how flag juggling is a glitch/exploit and how it's great that it's been fixed in Reach. May I ask why people suggest that it's a glitch? I know there are alot of intelligent users here so I'm looking for well thought out replies.
[quote][b]This thread may not apply to you![/b][/quote]
Bear in mind.
> Flag juggling was around in Halo:CE
> Flag juggling was around in Halo 2
> This 'glitch' wasn't fixed for Halo 3
> Is it possible that Bungie has changed this to cater for the majority of Halo's lesser skilled players? (imo Brigadiers and below) Note: That's my opinion, I'm entitled.
> Is it possible that Bungie hates Competitive aspects of gaming and is trying to wipe it out of their games slowly?
-Flag Juggling in itself is a skill. Not anybody can perform said action quickly and effectively. There is a huge skill gap when it comes to flag juggling which shows how much skill it takes. Not to mention that you are constantly reminded of the flag runner's position as the flag icon is showing their path.
-Compare your flag juggle to a Major League Gaming professional player who can toss it twice as far as you, promotes skill while still maintains a balanced game.
-If the other team manages to get a cap on you while you're all re-spawning and he's flag juggling, it's your fault not theirs. They have map control, they maintain map control, they benefit from their skills.
- It's not hard to stop a flag juggler unless your team has been completely annihilated and is on spawn, or you're the kind of person who thinks that playing good defense in CTF means camping your own base.
- CTF with flag juggling adds pace to the game and is fair. Whether it's an exploit or not isn't even really relevant. It adds to gameplay. (I've never seen any evidence that it is an exploit)
- Interestingly, [i]walking[/i] the flag takes [i]a lot more skill[/i] when flag juggling is a part of the game! If walking is the only way to travel with the flag, then it's always expected, but if juggling is more the norm, then you can occasionally make great plays walking the flag, because people aren't as prepared for it. Ever seen a pro walk the flag in an MLG event? It doesn't happen often (and seems to happen more on Narrows than on any other map), but when it works, it's bad ass. Always a clever play. Removing flag juggling removes this kind of cleverness.
[quote]
[/quote]
[b]Against Flag Running:[/b]
> Promotes Teamwork as your Objective player is walking the flag across the map instead of juggling at an increased speed.
> I guess it could take more skill if it means an increase of time of having to defend your objective player.
>'Levels the playing field'.
>'Allows the game to be played like it was intended.'
> 'Promotes an equal ground for new players who don't know how to flag run'
> Means not having to listen to the announcer saying, 'Flag Stolen, Flag Dropped repeatedly.
> Latency in-game affected the speed at which it could be performed providing a disadvantage for the off-host team.
Discuss.
[quote][/quote]
[Edited on 04.27.2010 7:47 AM PDT]
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ive always hated flag juggling (as ive stated in this and many other threads).. but the more i hear poeple trying to justify it as a skillfull tactic, the more i hate it and everyone who does it... seriously, if you flag juggle i really, REALLY hate you more and more with every "you just hate it cause you cant do it" coment. im starting to lose my composure with this topic. ITS NOT INTENDED TO BE PART OF THE GAME!!! how much more can be said about why bungie is removing it? how many more "it takes skill"
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Evil Johnny What the hell... It was not meant to be used, skill gap or not. It breaks the gameplay too. Adds pace? Since when it has been about a faster pace? Since when how a flag gets across a map has to be taken into consideration as a real gameplay element in any game? If you think the gameplay is slow, play another game, hell play Unreal Tournament, now you'll get the fast game you desire. It IS game-breaking for Halo. The flag carrier is meant to be slower, being the flag carriers is not without its handicap, and flag juggling destroys this handicap; juggernauts are stronger, zombies are weak, it's part of the gameplay mechanics of the game. You are meant to defend a slower flag carrier against enemies, as a flag carrier you are meant to find longer, more covered and hidden routes to successfully return it and maybe get your teammates to draw attention somewhere else. It's about using tactics and teamwork, something which is a lot less taken into account with flag juggling in favor of more pure skill, which has never been Halo's goal.[/quote] ETC. Well said. People forget that "MLG" was created using Halo's custom game options. Reach will be no different. Bungie is making Halo accessible to everyone, the way they see fit. That's how it's always been done. However, unlike most games they give you the options to change just about everything possible about the game to your own specifications. My advice, quit worrying. A truly skilled player will learn to adapt and embrace. A skilled player will always find "shortcuts" or other means to give him/herself the advantage and win. If it still bothers you either A. shouldn't play Halo or B. realize you're probably not that skilled.
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I don't see what's wrong with it, most of the time if a vehicle is available I'll try to coordinate my team into getting the flag and getting them in the vehicle.
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What the hell... It was not meant to be used, skill gap or not. It breaks the gameplay too. Adds pace? Since when it has been about a faster pace? Since when how a flag gets across a map has to be taken into consideration as a real gameplay element in any game? If you think the gameplay is slow, play another game, hell play Unreal Tournament, now you'll get the fast game you desire. It IS game-breaking for Halo. The flag carrier is meant to be slower, being the flag carriers is not without its handicap, and flag juggling destroys this handicap; juggernauts are stronger, zombies are weak, it's part of the gameplay mechanics of the game. You are meant to defend a slower flag carrier against enemies, as a flag carrier you are meant to find longer, more covered and hidden routes to successfully return it and maybe get your teammates to draw attention somewhere else. It's about using tactics and teamwork, something which is a lot less taken into account with flag juggling in favor of more pure skill, which has never been Halo's goal. Flag juggling breaks this, makes the game into something it isn't. Yes it gives no second chances, which is more "skillful" - or dare I say, more skillful and about luck at the same time, which makes the game even less consistent - but also too fast for an Halo game. Halo is about showing your skills through numerous confrontations, the best winning the majority of them. With flag juggling, while it may take more skills in certain occasions, you may also get good luck or bad luck, a certain random element which is always present, or a lot less with the most skilled players which are a definitive minority. Slayer isn't about the first team to score 10 kills, same here. Longer games and slower gameplay = more second chances, but also more chances for the best to stand out. Flag juggling destroys CTF's game mechanics and is not meant in a Halo game. Like I said, if you want an Unreal Tournament style game, go play that game, now you'll get fast gameplay. I'd rather play a longer quality game than a shorter one which is a lot less fun and satisfying. Why should we try to get as many games as possible? The more you play (and the faster) the less stand out and the more boring it gets, it really gets the game more unidimensional like BR only (or almost) games do. [Edited on 07.20.2010 9:15 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Master Megatron It's ANNOYING.[/quote] This is such a good reason
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It's ANNOYING.
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man, i got 7 pages into this thread then couldnt be bothered to read any further, there is trollery, but there is also valid points. i think that the juggling, allthough annoying, is a kind of skill, if its done right it can lead to victory. but i prefer having to hold onto the flag and having teammates back me up, it just adds to the experience of teammwork and not being able to slip away by myself. but as people have stated, it can be turned on or off, so be it, its bungies game, if they want it to be turned on or off they can allow it. If casual players dont like it, so be it, it will be off most likely, but seeing as it can be in customs or the mlg playlist, just dont enter them and let the competetive players do what the will i will check back later seeing as i have to go to work :)
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Its fun to flag juggle. Bungie knows this. So, I imagine it will always be allowed. I've seen vids where I'm actually impressed by how some guys juggle the flag.
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I for one, am glad this exploit is gone. I must say that flag juggling really bothered me in Halo. What I liked was when people didn't flag juggle, and then they could be hidden from view. No one would have any idea where the flag carrier was, and so a mad hunt for the flag carrier was underway. With flag juggling, CTF is just dumb. Sure, it gives the other team help with finding the flag carrier, but is that really worth sacrificing for a slight speed boost? Especially if there is no ride in sight? I ask you to take a look at [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f94Z--PJdc]this[/url], a video submitted to YouTube in 2007. See how it can still be epic and fun and pretty fast without dropping and picking up, giving the other team an advantage of finding you? (On a side note, hearing [i]Flag dropped, flag stolen, flag dropped flag dropped, flag dropped, flag dropped, flag stolen, flag dropped, flag captured, flag stolen![/i] is really annoying) [Edited on 07.20.2010 7:42 AM PDT]
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Alright Glenn Beck, just use weighted questions to make it sound like you aren't overwhelmingly biased in your opinion. Although I disagree with the ego in your post I'd have to say that flag juggling is a part of the game. It lets you move the flag faster than simple carrying, but it also points out your location. It also takes skill to use. The only thing I'd like changed is the 'Flag Taken, Flag Dropped' over and over again. That's annoying. The juggling itself is wonderful though.
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The whole point of slowing down the flagholder was to make balanced. You used to be able to run at crazy speeds and once you have the flag more often than not you would score if the slowing down wasn't in place. Basically, juggling is an exploit because it gets around a rule that Bungie put in place to balance the game. I didn't know it was fixed though. I thought they just got rid of the repeated announcements of flag dropped etc. Have they made it so that there is a five second cooling off time before you can pick it up again? That's what I want.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Glycerine Flesh [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RC R3w1nd [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] The Blair Witch Flag [i] Juggling[/i]: Quicker movement, but your position is compromised, making you a bigger target, while still incorporating teamwork to protect the carrier.[/quote] Unless of course you get so far away from the enemy base your flag capture is guaranteed. Which is not how it was meant to be.[/quote] Um... yes that is how it is meant to be.[/quote] So the constant "Flag taken, flag dropped, flag taken, flag dropped" spam is further proof of how it was intentional put into the game?... Flag juggling is an exploit that boosts the flag carrier's speed. If it wasn't, Bungie wouldn't have tried to stop it in the beta via slowing the flag carrier's speed. It's an exploit. Fix it. [Edited on 07.20.2010 7:34 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RC R3w1nd [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] The Blair Witch Flag [i] Juggling[/i]: Quicker movement, but your position is compromised, making you a bigger target, while still incorporating teamwork to protect the carrier.[/quote] Unless of course you get so far away from the enemy base your flag capture is guaranteed. Which is not how it was meant to be.[/quote] Um... yes that is how it is meant to be. If you're 4 down and the enemy has the flag in their base, you should lose the cap because you failed to stop them. Otherwise its usually possible to stop them if you're in position, which you should be. Only scrubs complain about flag juggling because they aren't good at it. It adds to the skill gap whilst being balanced.
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The arrogance of this thread is amazing. All that's going on here is he's created a one sided argument with little more than hearsay, conjecture, and circular logic to make it seem as though his side is the only correct one. Anyone coming close enough to breaking his glass house is hit with personal attacks about how their rank or k/d might be low and for some obscure reason this cancels their argument. If Bungie didn't think that flag juggling was a problem then they wouldn't have done anything to remove it from any part of the game period. It doesn't matter how many people complain about it. If Bungie thought it was fair or balanced they'd leave it alone. Oh and I'll save you some time. I'm a Staff Captain with a k/d of 0.8. Twist that to mean whatever you may like.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RC R3w1nd [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] The Blair Witch Flag [i] Juggling[/i]: Quicker movement, but your position is compromised, making you a bigger target, while still incorporating teamwork to protect the carrier.[/quote] Unless of course you get so far away from the enemy base your flag capture is guaranteed. Which is not how it was meant to be.[/quote] Even if the capturing team slaughters the defenders? What I see a lot of in this thread is people implying "Even if the enemy team destroys us when they take the flag I still want the flag carrier to be near us when we respawn so that we can make up for getting destroyed". Unless of course you mean that the defenders were not close to the flag when it was taken, in which they absolutely deserve to lose.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sock Dem Boppers [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 It's a exploit. /Thread[/quote] ^This This thread has the same meaning to that of a "How is Stand-by a Glitch/Exploit?". Saying people are less skilled because they don't know how to Assassinate through a wall or Modify their Connection would have the same Meaning as telling people they aren't skilled due to the fact they don't know how to modify their flag movement speed through an Exploit.[/quote] HOW CAN YOU COMPARE THESE!? LOL One is pressing the drop flag and pick up flag button in game and tossing it. The other is lagging other players out of the game.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] The Blair Witch Flag [i] Juggling[/i]: Quicker movement, but your position is compromised, making you a bigger target, while still incorporating teamwork to protect the carrier.[/quote] Unless of course you get so far away from the enemy base your flag capture is guaranteed. Which is not how it was meant to be.
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they better keep flag juggling in
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idc if its a glitch or exploit or not. All I know is CTF is lame and everyone should play Slayer. Flag taken Flag dropped flag taken OMG STFU AND JUST CARRY IT!
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It was in halo's 1, 2 and 3. Bungie has not considered it an exploit before, why start now?
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The only reason i want flag juggling kept in is because it promotes objective playing more than with it out. It promotes a team using distraction and killing other players rather than one man going in there, stealing the flag and then sneaking it out. Also, with the apparent increase in map size and the lower movement speed, flag runnng is not going to be nearly as effective as it is in halo 3 in terms of sight lines and cover, making the whole concept of this thread different to what a lot of the people have made it out to be I:E a debate about flag running in halo 3
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] The Blueprint You guys are missing the point, if that person was as skilled as they claimed to be they should be able to get at least one 50 is what hes sayin and a lot of people agree with the sentiment that in order to be considered good you need at least 1 50[/quote] Yeah,a 50 in lone wolves,team slayer,team snipers,etc would really mean they have a more profound understanding of objective based games than someone who doesn't have a 50 in objectiveless playlists. >.> <.<[/quote] I thought we were talking about being considered skilled here? But ok. I was a 50 in Team objective and searched on my 50 a lot and I was a huge fan of flag juggling. On some maps it was the only way to even have hope of getting a cap. On Last Resort it took so long to break into the base and get the flag that you would have to juggle in order to get the flag there on time. Or Isolation where they spawn so close to you all the time you would have to juggle it. Flag juggling was beneficial and took skill to do
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Yes, flag juggling was not intended. Yes, it is an exploit. No, it should not be removed. I say this because the two different styles have their advantages and disadvantages. Flag [i] Running[/i]: Slower movement, making you an easy target, but if done properly allows you to sneak the flag back to base, while also incorporating teamwork. Flag [i] Juggling[/i]: Quicker movement, but your position is compromised, making you a bigger target, while still incorporating teamwork to protect the carrier. Personally I think that there needs to still be flag juggling as an option. Not every situation calls for just running it, just as not every situation calls for just juggling it.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] FirewalI [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Donut Funn Maybe he's not as good as you, but for all we know, he could be damn well freakin' awesome. He could be amazingly skilled.[/quote] He'd be a 50 then if he was 'amazingly skilled'. [b] Anyone who isn't a 50 in my eyes is just average. [/b] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Donut Funn Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that Generals are just kids who orgasm at their 50, and think that anyone who isn't a General = teh suCKSSS!!!!!11!!1!one1![/quote] Why do you talk like that? Can you please stop derailing my thread, this is your warning or I will report you to the moderators. [/quote]So if anything below 50 is considered average, wouldn't that make all 50's only slightly above average? Basically what I'm saying is you think 49 = average, but 50 = good? [Edited on 07.20.2010 7:02 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] The Blueprint You guys are missing the point, if that person was as skilled as they claimed to be they should be able to get at least one 50 is what hes sayin and a lot of people agree with the sentiment that in order to be considered good you need at least 1 50[/quote] Yeah,a 50 in lone wolves,team slayer,team snipers,etc would really mean they have a more profound understanding of objective based games than someone who doesn't have a 50 in objectiveless playlists. >.> <.< [Edited on 07.20.2010 7:02 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Matt Gesell Flag Juggling is a skill. those who don't know how to do it. LEARN! its not that hard to be honest. if u dont like hearing flag stolen constantly, don't let the opposing team take it! get some skill and stop crying to Bungie for your lack of skill. its not a glitch, the ability to drop and pick up a flag is perfectly fine.[/quote] OMG dude...just stop!
