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3/10/2020 8:47:07 AM
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Sorry to burst your bubble but usually what is PvE meta isn’t PvP meta and usually PvE meta gets nerfed way more often than PvP - I have even quoted bungie from many different TWABs where they straight tell you “we want end game activities like raids and nightfalls to feel challenging” right before they nerf all your guns and sometimes our guns that are PvP meta get caught up in the mix. In fact, I believe they said this exact thing once again in a TWAB or the directors cut - something that came out in the past month at least.
Shotguns get buffed for PvE - everyone uses Ikelos, shotguns get nerfed. Snipers get buffed for PvE, everyone uses snipers, they get nerfed. They release a cool new exotic (like when they released sleeper and whisper) - they get nerfed again because of PvE. Everything for PvE gets nerfed into the ground making Izi the king of DPS... it gets nerfed. You do realize that recluse didn’t get nerfed for 3 seasons and it wasn’t until that third season (season 8) when everyone in PvE used recluse in every PvE activity almost exclusively that it ended up getting nerfed. If anything, PvP people should be pissed at PvE players for getting their stuff nerfed.
Why are PvE players so salty and refuse to take the blame for anything. It’s always “I hate crucible so I’m going to blame it for all the nerfs in this game! It shouldn’t even be a part of destiny!” And the good ole “hardly anyone even plays crucible”
Had this argument with some PvE know it all the other day - according to actual stats that are reported by 3rd party sites, on average 40+% of players across all platforms play crucible and 87% play PvE - on top of that, 95% that play crucible also play PvE (there’s usually a lot of people who apparently just log in and don’t do anything or just play gambit/gambit prime every week according to stats - I don’t get it, but it happens). People who play this game for crucible have to play PvE to farm high stat gear, MW mats, and meta weapons to compete. It’s actually kind of funny because ever since trials was announced its returning next season (less than a week away), crucible numbers actually dropped and PvE numbers (nightfalls especially) jumped. I mean seriously, how many people you see in the crucible running nature of the beast, or autumn wind, or retro futurist? Sure you’ll come across players running revoker with NF/Luna but are they wearing crucible armor? Where did they get their mindbenders from or all those mats to MW their armor? Where did their spare rations drop from, or their dust rock blues? What about their beloved sniper rifles? Did those drop in crucible? How about their high stat exotics? I guarantee you those didn’t drop from crucible matches.
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[quote] I guarantee you those didn’t drop from crucible matches.[/quote] ...As someone who really only plays D2 for PvP I would not mind it if the PvE guns would just drop in Crucible too..... Make me pay 100 Shaxx-coins for an item of MY choosing as icing on that cake. I'd NEVER touch PvE again.
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I fully agree with this. I absolutely hate the PvE grind for a lot of this stuff. It isn’t challenging or fun - it’s just tedious and redundant
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Those numbers are wrong tho, a good portion of those pvp play numbers on any given day would be cut on half if we were not forced to play pvp for quest and catalysts. Remove the players who do not want to be there and it’s be 10-15% tops, I get your point, but pvp is the minority here and should be treated as such.
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So minorities should be treated differently? Really that’s what your going to put on the internet?
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My post was never meant to be racial nor does it come off that way, it’s purely business. The majority isn’t happy, time to stop trying to please 5 different types of players and focus on what the majority wants. Make the game great and word of mouth will sell it. Sure everyone will not be happy but JC there is nothing racial about it. And anyone in business knows you can’t please everyone. So why not please the larger playerbase that doesn’t give af about pvp or the constant issues bc of it.
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Really? How many quests and catalysts do you honestly think people are still grinding for? Are there even any PvE catalysts? And with the nerf to recluse - what quest weapon is a PvE person really going to play PvP for if they don’t like pvp? Luna, NF, revoker, randy, Komodo, redrix - all of them have way better options to use in PvE activities and you don’t have to play PvP to get them. Sure some people will grind it for the collection but easily at least 90% if not more of people who play PvP like playing destiny PvP even if they say they hate it and complain about the meta or whatever, they wouldn’t find them selves playing it every week if that wasn’t the case. And if the quest argument was true, we would see numbers drop off after the majority of players finish those quests - and while yes, number do drop, they drop consistently for PvE and PvP while % stays pretty even
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Lunas was great in pve until it was nerfed bc of pvp, Randy’s was amazing last season with anti barrier, mt top is also good in pve. You are delusional sir. Want to use suros with catalyst? Great, now go play pvp even tho you do not want to. Pvp is basically forced on pve players bc Bungie knows without tying leve up or some of the best weapons in game next to no one would play. Numbers are not accurate.
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My argument wasn’t that those weapons can’t be or aren’t good in PvE - it was that there are better options. Who the hell is running around nightfalls and raids using suros? Nobody. Like seriously, you are talking less than 1% of the destiny population using those weapons for PvE (maybe a little more than 1% using Randy’s... but I doubt it) And even after guns were nerfed - a good example being recluse: recluse was king in PvE all the way through the end of season of undying before it got nerfed. PvE players complained all the time because they had to play PvP to get but people did play PvP all the time to grind for it. After the nerf, it’s almost never used in PvE, most people already have it, and those who don’t aren’t grinding for it unless they are a collector - PvP vs PvE % numbers still the same.
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I disagree 100% With the perk on suros regenerating health, catalyst makes it work even better, nightfalls with limited heath regeneration, it’s a viable option. Guaranteed if leveling with milestones quest completions along with catalysts pvp would not have half the playerbase it does. And I can tell you from experience way more than 1% of people use those weapons in pve. Fact you can equip anti barrier on smg’s this season it will be a recluse fest, why else you think there is a shiny new recluse ornament at eververse? Guaranteed if pvp weapon quests and milestones were gone 10% of the playerbase would be playing it. I see mt top being used a lot also, sry but I don’t see your point.
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“Guarantee would not have half the player base it does” “If it wasn’t for those, 10% wouldn’t be playing crucible” Make up your mind man - also I just pulled up usage on destiny tracker and currently Randy’s is used 1.2% in PvE and Suros is sitting at less than 0.24% because it’s not even on the meta list. Surprisingly recluse is still at the top with 10% but again, if people were only playing PvP for recluse, then we would see a variance and % of players drop off after getting the weapon. Basically a (perhaps slow but) steady consistent decline in PvP vs PvE player base - but that’s not the case. While the overall player base does decline, the % of players playing each stays very consistent and only fluctuates (up and down) by a few % over the course of now 2 & 1/2 years for D2 But believe what you want. I can’t help if people who hate PvP want to remain blind to the fact that there is a good amount of people who play PvP and enjoy it 🤷🏼♂️
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That’s great, enjoy it all you want, many of us do not and do not appreciate being forced to play. No way to know for sure until both modes are separated properly. You shouldn’t have to play pve either of all you want to play is pvp, it goes both ways.
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The difference is nobody is forcing you to play PvP - like I said before, there are better options usually and tons of options at that - none of them requiring you to touch PvP. The same goes for PvP except if you want to stay competitive you do have to play PvE because PvP isn’t going to give you the gear or mats required to min/max which makes 10X more of a difference in PvP than it does in PvE. NPC’s don’t give a damn what your mobility or recovery is, they aren’t going to push you while you chill somewhere safe to recover your health, and MW weapons drop orbs galor in PvE which can refill your super, grenade, and/or melee depending on which mods you’re rocking. But go ahead and keep complaining about how bungie twists your arm forcing you to play PvP because you just have to have that suros catalysts or you can’t play the way you want 👍
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All I know is destiny is pve at its core so if ya don’t like it find a new game. Pvp is also reason for 0 weapon diversity bc of meta needs bc Bungie can’t just separate, weak supers abilities boring subclass options.... the list goes on. Destiny could survive and thrive without pvp as long as pve was taken care of properly, but without pve it would be dead within a year or less. I honestly do not care what your opinion is, I’ve been here since d1 alpha and know pvp has been pushed on us constantly, I stay away for most part and will never step foot in trials, I’m not complaing about that, just don’t see why both sides cannot choose how they want to progress, should be all pvp options or all pve options or leave as is now, but this philosophy has turned an obscene amount of die hard pve players away from game, last I checked that’s not good for business. No go back to control bro
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Although I agree with everything good gets nerfed, your reason I do not.... Sorry but don't blame PvE players. The only people to blame is bungie. Every single player in this game look for the best weapon to use, the weapons that cause the most damage and kill the fastest.
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Good point
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You are right mostly things are getting nerfed because we kill bosses too fast in PvE.
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Edited by Endymion: 3/10/2020 9:57:12 AM[quote]Shotguns get buffed for PvE - everyone uses Ikelos, shotguns get nerfed. Snipers get buffed for PvE, everyone uses snipers, they get nerfed. They release a cool new exotic (like when they released sleeper and whisper) - they get nerfed again because of PvE. Everything for PvE gets nerfed into the ground making Izi the king of DPS... it gets nerfed. You do realize that recluse didn’t get nerfed for 3 seasons and it wasn’t until that third season (season 8) when everyone in PvE used recluse in every PvE activity almost exclusively that it ended up getting nerfed. If anything, PvP people should be pissed at PvE players for getting their stuff nerfed.[/quote] For me it's not a problem that PvE players are using weapons that they like or are the most effective, even if for most of them or even everyone it's the same tool of extermination. It's Bungie who makes a problem of it. But should it be a problem? I don't compete with other players in PvE, so why anyone in Bungie have a problem with that what we are using to fight against their stupid bots? Even if there was a weapon that would "erase" half of the map. What is the problem? It's PvE.
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[quote]I don't compete with other players in PvE, so why anyone in Bungie have a problem with that what we are using to fight against their stupid bots?[/quote] Yeah I don't get this either.
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Then you’d be making pve worthless. Why do challenges when this weapon kills half of the map? why grind when this weapon kills half of the map? why is there a difficulty slider when this weapon kills half of the map? Why play with friends when there’s no point because this weapon kills half of the map? If you still don’t believe me then look at warframe’s pitiful state.
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Edited by Astellan: 3/10/2020 8:37:17 PMUmm, I don't think you understand how an RPG loot system works. The entire point of grinding up to cap and getting weapons at the cap means they are supposed to be superior than what is below them. This is not the case with Destiny. What are you grinding for? If a guy in 850 gear is exactly the same as a guy at the cap, then the guy at the cap wasted his time. In all games except the destiny series, the high level players stay in high level zones because the low level zones present them with zero challenges. That is how it should be. Your assertions are refuted by WoW, I hit level 120, I can wipe a lvl 100 map, but in the 120 zones their are things that can challenge me. That is of the endgame. Its supposed to give you an experience that is different than the low zones. The gear for level 50 is to get them ready to face the challenges made for them. Hell, I have been at the cap in every DLC save for shadowkeep because there is no reason to go beyond 930. Just look at the guy who got to 999pl, his experience was no different. Now go play City of Heroes. A lvl 50 in City of Heroes has two things they farm. Enhancements and the Incarnate system. An incarnate is head and shoulders more powerful than a standard lvl 50. There are Task forces and Trials where if you are not an incarnate you suffer a -5 lvl adjustment, which means in ITrials your foes are 8 lvls above you because the mobs in an atrial are 54 and a non incarnate is going to con as a 45. Despite incarnate players being Gods the game is neither dead no suffering from people leaving.
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[quote]Then you’d be making pve worthless. Why do challenges when this weapon kills half of the map?[/quote] I think PvE gets worthless when you stump progression like they have. A 750 Nightfall is just as easy as a 920 Nightfall. There is really no difference, except I'm technically 200 powerlevels above, just that it never shows. PvE holds it's value if I can grow powerfull and STEAMROLL when I want to, and be CHALLANGED when I want to. Who cares if I decide to one-bang Brachus-Chan in the face with Whisper of the Worm when playing a 750 Nightfall? If I played that Nightfall as a 750, when it was challenging and then returned 200 Power-levels later there SHOULD be a difference... not the exact same experience. Where's the point in that? That's where PvE becomes worthless, in my opinion at least.
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You realise that Destiny is not a PVP game right? This is not Call of Duty where the main aspect lies in PVP. Destiny is PVE first and PVP is a nice addition that was added
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Actually it’s both. They even stated in an interview (I believe it was with game informer) before the release of destiny that they wanted to make something where you could go on a mission with your friends, kill this challenging boss and get some amazing sniper (I believe they used patients and time for the example) and then take this new weapon into a slayer/clash type game mode in the crucible and see how it performs against other players. That was their original design for destiny - grind PvE for amazing weapons to use it PvP - they even talked about their roots being in FPS games and wanting to make a great FPS game like halo, but that had this exciting loot aspect like diablo 2 (which was also very much a PvE grind for loot to beat people at PvP) that’s also why the game launched with multiple crucible game modes for you to choose between and play. Also, trials of Osiris along with most everything in the first 2 expansions of D1 was created and developed before the release of the game. So we could sit here all day long and argue but there is evidence out there that shows PvP was as much of a focus for them as PvE from the beginning, I’m just too lazy to search for 6yo article to prove my point 👍
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That not a actual rebuttal to what he is saying......
