Well, you might as well go ahead and blame e-sports as well.

Fair enough, I blame e-sports as well

This is a brutal truth dude. I've been playing pvp shooters since BF1942 wake island. It was all fun even when it got competitive. I think I started to notice the difference with BF3. When personal performance became more important than the fun.

I've been playing PvP shooters since OG Doom was crashing my dorm's network. There's nothing wrong with valuing personal performance if the game's constructed correctly, and has the rudder firmly pointed to fun, a solid experience that feels right (not this insufferable mess of lag, 5-10 second hit registration, invincibility, teleporting,and railguns shooting through walls), fun, some fun, some more fun, and...I think they forgot something else...a game that actually performs well enough that it has enough consistency that you can always improve and constantly be challenged while having some goddamn fun. If the game and its systems and maps and objectives is well enough conceived, it's actually hard for someone selfishly valuing their own performance to NOT contribute to the team. I'm not saying you're wrong or trying to argue with you. Streamers are a problem and they're actually training noobs to play like them. It sucks. I just think a great game would steer or nudge them towards contributing more. For me, the biggest problem with the crucible is that more often than not, I feel like my enemy IS the crucible. I feel like I'm fighting the game itself, and that's not bad, it's fúckïng TERRIBLE. After all, a third to half of my deaths occur because I spawned into enemy crosshairs, or the same super that just killed me, or I got hung up on a goddamn two inch terrain shift. That's just an awful game.

Well this is where we simply differ. I have had connectivity issues in plenty of games. One in particular is a game called “rust” on pc. The lag was awful, the hackers were relentless, and I got kicked from game world plenty of times. But the concept of the game and the game world itself were more than enough to keep me interested. If I am simply uninterested in a game’s concept, then there is no reason for me to spend money on it in the first place. I’ve never actually said in real life “this game is boring as fuq, but at least it runs smooth and there’s no lag.” That’s absolutely ridiculous. Destiny pvp is BORING regardless of connectivity. Why would you even TOUCH the servers until you could come up with something ACTUALLY ENJOYABLE IN THE FIRST PLACE? I’ve been “aiming and shooting bad guys” since ‘91, and it hasn’t gotten any more interesting than that. I could ABSOLUTELY live with destiny’s current server issues AS LONG AS the pvp itself was fun. But pvp itself is not fun, so there is no reason to work on the servers until pvp can become fun. But bungie seems to think every person on the planet is a 12 year old mtn dew drinking spaz with JUSSSSST enough attention span to handle a 6v6 game of clash. Any objectives like “capture the flag” or “griffball” would be simply too complicated for simple minds.