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Edited by SierraAstaelion:
5/16/2018 5:51:07 PM
41
Wrong kind of grind guys.
I detailed this in other posts before, but the fact is the people asking for grind never specified what kind of grind they wanted. Now we have a superficial grind that isn’t rewarding it’s just slow for no reason. And VALID sources are saying the same.
http://www.co-optimus.com/article/15597/destiny-2-warmind-expansion-stream-recap-and-impressions.html
Grind is good when it’s done right. vanilla D1 was a poor example of what we should be shooting for... but it’s the constant foolish request of the salty D2 community.
Hardcores need to listen to the casuals more and the casuals need to listen to the hardcores, because the best games land somewhere in the middle, not on either extreme. Casuals want more to do, just not grinding for the same boring and weak rewards. Hardcores, even you don’t like grinding raids for the same exact thing over and over, why else would you ask for random rolls? You’re bored with end game, but instead of specifying an actual fix for the tiny loot table, you sobbed about wanting D1 back. Now we have a grind for trash items.
The grind bungie introduced from 345-max light is superficial... and when you reach the end game guess what... THERES STILL NOTHING TO DO. You’re all still complaining, and now the casuals hate the game too. Lol.
I’ve repeatedly said it, the problem with destiny has NEVER been a need for more arbitrary grind, it’s ALWAYS been a [i][b]lack of content. [/b][/i].
[b][i][u] Stop asking for grind, and demand more CONTENT. [/u][/i][/b]
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1 ReplyAgreed, this is a false grind. It’s just slower not more rewarding.
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1 ReplyOnly bungie would see "more grind", and instantly choose the worst, least effort option they could think of. Truely disgusted
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1 ReplyIts is a grind to get your light level up and that is it. And this IS NOT FUN. The grind should be for upgrading the full potential of your gear and then having activities to use that gear in. Instead we get RNG drops of exotics rather than working to unlock or acquire the exotics.
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2 RepliesThe grind as it is could as well not exist. Personally I would enjoy a classic RPG style grind. You shoot and do things for exp and your level increases. As your level increases you get points to distribute between various things, thus creating your very own tiny sandbox. Gear on the other hand should be upgradable and moddable to a great extent without any light nonsense.
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15 RepliesGrinding is not the issue and has never been the issue in either D1 or D2. It's Bungie that can't seem to grasp what a happy medium means and they never have. I'm am lost on why they haven't even figured this out and it's going on 4 years later. D1 Y1 RNG was brutal so naturally gamers complained about not getting certain loot even though Bungie stated in different words when D1 vanilla released... [quote]Gamers will not acquire all the rewards in the game[/quote] Reason being? D1 base game and the 2 expansions were not set up for gamers to (acquire everything) in the game. Gamers were not meant to get "everything", but what Bungie said gamers didn't care and blew it off anyways because they wanted what they wanted and they wanted it Now! Much like how gamers are today in D2. So here come little ole Bungie making everything easily accessible after H.O.W thinking going the extreme opposite would solve their problem. No, it create a bigger problem for them now causing gamers to blow through what little content they offered knowing Bungie could not keep up with the supply and demand sorta speak. Much like D2. Now gamers are complaining there isn't enough content but D2 base game and the 2 expansion are far worse off then D1 base game and the 2 expansions ever were. Mainly do to the major lack of incentive and creating a game based around useless cosmetic that do absolutely Nothing for D2. Gamers went on complaining about loot drop rates etc... that the game got even worse as far as it becoming one big hand out. 3oC was introduced and made thing even worse... Then ROI dropped and you could literally blow right through Everything except for a couple exotic quest but the loot from other event and the raids drop like candy. I actually had to stop playing D1 this last week because how stupidly fast I was acquiring Everything in just the raids alone. So, going from the RNG that was brutal in D1 Y1 to one big hand out is what D2 has actually became when the base game released, even worse then ROI. So, here it is that gamers ask Bungie to make the game have more of a grind and better rewards to acquire and Bungie goes, okay, will give you the grind but you still have to deal with the crappy rewards. Logic at it's best when they say "they're listening" Bungie, you had Blizzard right next to you that knows what a progression system is and knows how to rewards their player base for their time spent in their game. What gives?
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1 ReplyI have nothing against grinding op as the 1st destiny at least the weapons were worth grinding since everyone wasn't running around with the same perks on their weapons which is what really hurts this game. Random rolls,and loot exclusive strikes at least added a good amount of replay value to this game. But i do agree with you on the demand for more content. That's what every destiny game has been seriously lacking. Destiny should look at games like grand theft auto V online. At least they keep on updating shit every week just like other amazing games like Monster Hunter World. I seriously wondered why they never stuck with the random rolls,and skill trees of the 1st destiny. While that game was far from perfect it was a game i could call my destiny. Not this pos of a game. I hope all of you are having an awesome day. Toodles.
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1 ReplyMy issue is, given the amount of time I'm investing per week, my characters progression is painfully slow.
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1 ReplyI didn’t think I would like this but I read it and then I did.
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1 ReplyEdited by Jeebs: 5/18/2018 6:50:50 AMIt's a vast improvement over what we had, it was to fast, now we just need the loot depth + activity specific rewards to be more interesting and we're good 👍
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4 RepliesI always tried to amend my grind statements with desirable loot goals. Make grindy modes and events, but make the rewards worth the grinding effort. Same for light. Make it hard to achieve max light, but make light actually mean something and not just a barrier to entry
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Just thought I’d update everybody, in case you hadn’t read the bungie news release today, that it appears bungie is attempting to correct this issue in a couple of ways: By the end of the month (from what I understand) heroic strikes will be grindable to increase stats beyond the weekly milestones. That will help ease the numbers grind... though that’s definitely not the only issue (boring perks and reused visuals have been the focus of the conversation here) Weapon Randomization (still not clearly defined but I hope it’s a mix of random roll+progression based customization) comes September... but they recognize that other pursuits like seasonal progressions and exotic quests/masterworks which help, are not enough... hopefully this means they’re working in additional progression based pursuits to make grind fun and interesting again, but they admit it seems unlikely they’re releasing this kind of fix before September... maybe even later... IB, rallies, and a new seasonal event will be there to tide us over until September. I commend bungie for responding quickly... and I’m glad they’re hearing us... though their fixes are scheduled to hit us a bit late, and they still don’t fix the reskinning issue for visuals... hopefully September is going to offer some solutions for regurgitated aesthetics too... several youtubers said something like this after the summit: “some of you guys care about perks, some you care about visual customization... I really think what they’re releasing in September is going to make everybody happy”.
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2 RepliesWhat game do you consider to have good grind? For me it's The Witcher 3 or...GoW
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4 RepliesWhat do you prefer, this current grind or how it was at D2 launch when in a week you ll be done? Yeah its a wrong kind of grind, but still it gives you a reason to do raids which was extremely needed.
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4 RepliesThe problem. The problem. Is that they build the game to the minority of the players, the casuals and the sweaties. Leaving nothing for anyone else...
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3 RepliesThere is [i]meaningful[/i] grind. There is [i]meaningless[/i] grind. D2 already had [i]meaningless[/i] grind, Warmind just doubled down on it.
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1 ReplyTotally agree, one full week of playing, dropping three of coins like a drunk drops change and outside of milestones ,not a single exotic engram.
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1 ReplyI completely agree, quite honestly have had it with this game. I’m in day one player and I’ve spent probably over $1000 and I’ve recruited over a dozen players to the game. Here I am now sitting at 3:55 two weeks in because I don’t want to raid anymore. Guess I’m not allowed to play the game the way I like. To be honest what really gets me, is that I have played probably 80 hours since the release of this dlc and I have not received one new exotic or exotic catalyst, LOL And just in case anyone is wondering, I’ve completed a level four escalation protocol, approximately a dozen night falls and even more strikes, and all known quests. Not to mention maybe 50 public events.
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1 ReplyIt's not even just the artificial level grind. There is only one damn gun worth going after in pvp and it's rank 3 competitive. I'll get there eventually but I mostly solo que so I play quickplay. Maxing out and resetting your level gets you an emblem. There's just nothing worth doing as you put it.
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1 ReplyNicely said. Also add Depth to the content, The majority of our content is shallow anyway.
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4 RepliesEdited by U8043781: 5/17/2018 4:57:55 AMYou must be new..... destiny has always had an artificial grind. Only difference between destiny 1 and 2 is that in 1 we actually had commensurate rewards for said grind. The random rolls and stuff like vex or forever 29 kept it alive for me. And vanilla destiny had the best raid and best weapons before the “casuals” cried nerf and ruined everything.
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3 RepliesThey should go back to the old system since it worked and didn't have a boring grind slowing us down. But what if they did exotic mods? Functionally similar to legendary mods with the +5 power, but with a randomly rolled bonus, where these only drop from endgame activities such as Nightfall or raid along with milestones. Some sort of crazy awesome perks like birthday party (enemies explode on headshot kills) or hive burn (rounds inflict poison damage)
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1 ReplyYeah actual, more content is sorely needed. But that content needs to give gear worth playing for over and over.
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1 ReplyI think the problem was them actually trying to reach the middle ground that the game never truly feels like it's trying to be something. I agree the game lacks content, but the fundamental lack of content also comes from the lack of grind. As much as I absolutely hate to say it, grind is necessary for games like this. If the continued to make the game a participation medal type of game, then nothing feels rewarding, but if they try to go the way of increasing the difficulty without improving the loot...the game can and will show problems. Content is something in the eye of the beholder (I think I used that right?) Whether it's grinding for things most people can't or won't get, putting the most hours into sparrow racing to be the best...anything can be considered content and it's incredibly difficult to please everyone because of it. I like a lot what bungie is doing with patches now where they fix or improve something, because even if it's not like...a new raid, it gives me something different to play around with than before. In an effort to shorten this because I'm pretty boring, I will say one last thing: Bungie has found out what they need to do and they know how to do it, but the question is if will they or will it be enough? Thanks for reading.
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1 ReplyGrind is good when done right. The issue is Destiny is relying to much on the weekly blocks of progression. 1) Have a set gear score where the normal raid drops and is possible to clear that final boss at that gear score. 2) Have weekly milestones drop up to 10 or 20 levels past the minimum raid requirement. 3) Have the raids be the only way to drop at cap gear score for a time. After a month or two when Prestige mode comes out increase the gear cap and also increase weekly milestones to the point where normal raids had capped at. Prestige should be the only way to hit that gear cap till the end of the expansion about a month before the next release where weekly milestones unlock max gearscore. Finally, we need more unique rewards that provide a level of horizontal progression, exotic catalysts are great, nightfall exclusives are fantastic, but we need more. Iron banner weapons should have a few diamonds as well as faction rally (currently it looks like we have a few catalysts hidden behind events and that is great idea). Heroic strikes need some exclusive loot too.
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1 ReplyEdited by [ＳiＮ]大き氷: 5/17/2018 9:23:24 PMThe grind should come from powering up your gear with options. I know they are changing it, but the mod system could have been made to where once you apply it it's part of the armor. That way you can collect them for that armor piece and then switch between whichever you like whenever based on whats needed. Instead we chase a number, that's really dumb for a game that they tout as an action shooter. Also in regards to the number, they could be making things drop slowly but consistently with weekly milestones being small guaranteed bumps and harder content being bigger guaranteed bumps. Having nothing to do is a result of a lack of content, and I would add to that by saying it is also a result of bland content as well.
