Well said mate, give us back our old system which kept us engaged year after year. This shite lasted 2 months!!

I'll have to say though, I never liked Random Rolls or the Grimoire personally. I mostly played Destiny 1 because Bungie's always been very skilled at making an enjoyable core game shooter. Pvp and Pve was fun to do with friends, and there were cool events to partake in. Even Destiny 1 though felt very shallow in its existence. We were originally sold on it being a shooter MMORPG, and that's kind of what I signed up for. What we got was like... basically a frontend page with some quickplay options that hit content playlists. Not exactly close to the same. It's like the seeds were there, but never bloomed. In Destiny 2, I know I wanted to see them take Destiny 1 as a baseline, and expand out with all those missing and promised features when the first game floundered. Instead it seems they actually stripped elements OUT of the first game, and provided something much more akin to a FTP android phone game that was playing at it being an MMO lite.

[quote]I'll have to say though, I never liked Random Rolls or the Grimoire personally. I mostly played Destiny 1 because Bungie's always been very skilled at making an enjoyable core game shooter. Pvp and Pve was fun to do with friends, and there were cool events to partake in. Even Destiny 1 though felt very shallow in its existence. We were originally sold on it being a shooter MMORPG, and that's kind of what I signed up for. What we got was like... basically a frontend page with some quickplay options that hit content playlists. Not exactly close to the same. It's like the seeds were there, but never bloomed. In Destiny 2, I know I wanted to see them take Destiny 1 as a baseline, and expand out with all those missing and promised features when the first game floundered. Instead it seems they actually stripped elements OUT of the first game, and provided something much more akin to a FTP android phone game that was playing at it being an MMO lite.[/quote] It’s fine if you didn’t like them, however that’s pretty much the foundation of an MMO, gear rolls and lore. That’s what this game was an MMO lite version, because even at its most grindy point it was still never as time consuming as a real mmo. That’s what I don’t like about people’s arguments that it was too hard to get rolls or the game didn’t “respect their time”. Ok cool. There’s way more grindy games out there WoW, ESO, etc. We aren’t torching the devs over there to make the game more casual. Like if ppl didn’t like the mmo aspect of destiny it sounds like they should play halo. 5 is actually very good. The point is most gamers don’t go into a community and demand the game be catered toward them. That’s what happened between 1 and 2. Now the fans of the first game are asking for it back. Because that’s what we were promised and what we signed up for and what we played thousands over hours for. We didn’t play the FPS RPG MMO(lite) to have it hijacked by a bunch of whiney people that said it was too hard. Could bungie have just made the road more clear than they did in D1, sure. And you know what they did. You get legendary and exotic gear during the campaign and see your power level creep in addition to your level. This already fixed the main complaint of “casuals” in the first game. A convoluted leveling system, ppl didn’t know what you did after 20 in vanilla. So why go the extra 12 steps of removing random rolls, gear perks, weapon progression, 6v6, picking playlists, weapon system, etc? There was none. Again in bungie fashion the nerf hammer was swung overboard again. Just making the game friendly in the beginning should’ve been enough. Instead the franchise that was promised to be this shared world shooter, all about loot and hard raids was turned into “friendship” and tokens. D1 got some flack but it’s loyal base stayed with it. Now they have alienated most of these players. That’s why the backlash this time is so much worse. Vanilla is was “ppl still play this game?” The answer was yes. Now it’s “this game is trash”. And it can’t even be denied. They front loaded a pretty game and once you reach the “end” you see right through it. This is a problem because who does this leave left? Most casuals play the game and move on right? The old former hardcore left? So now all that’s left is a smaller new wave of hardcore? Why not have just kept the old hardcore and new ones to be added on top of that? Now destiny shares and FPS space with games like battlefield, battlefront, halo, Titanfall, rainbow 6, cod. Destiny one was drastically different from these games being the only space magic power fantasy fps. Now it’s akin to halo, but much less fun. Now these other shooters are still a little different from destiny, but they are mostly more fun than destiny now. Abilities and supers were nerfed into oblivion. Movement speed as well and ttk. This is what put Destiny as the only game in its niche and why it was so popular to play and watch for 3 years. Destiny is just not as fun anymore. In one fell swoop pvp and Pve were nerfed and it shows by the amount of people leaving and the biggest fans questioning the studio(fireteam chat, forums, reddit, almost every youtuber/streamer). I was optimistic on the changes to loot and weapons and crucible. I tried it plenty, 160 hours. I found out optimism doesn’t make a good game. It was an okay try, but this isn’t the game we were promised back in 2013, not even close.

I think you may be injecting more into my statement than I wrote or intended. Also I don't know how 6v6 in crucible references MMORPGS like WoW and Eve. I think the MMO elements that were talked about, but never existed, were things like genuine exploration. A sprawling open world. Social interactions, game as a service style setup, collection and crafting of items, trade economy, character progression, defined classes with separation of abilities, and all of the other elements that are the defining points of the genre. If all it takes are loot rolls and a grind. Then most games are MMORPGS, but that's not really the defining point. That's what I'm saying. I think that there's also 3 (Maybe more) groups that are all invested in this title. You have the folks who loved D1 and played it. And they're looking for more of the same + new features because it's a second title. And that's very reasonable. You have a second group who thought D1 was ok, but not what they signed up for, or prordered (That's totally me) and while they found some enjoyment, they had to accept it's really a different game from the MMORPG with guns that was advertised. They're looking to D2 to try and fix the gaps of things like lack of a Story, lack of a cohesive world, exploration, meaningful progress and so on. And that just didn't happen in D2. Then you have your third group, new players! They saw pictures, ads, heard from friends, and wanted to play the game! Maybe it was because it's on PC for the first time and they don't play consoles or something. There's myriad reasons why this could be so. They're expecting a game to play, period. And... it's not a 60 buck game at the moment, let alone the 120 plus they're asking with all the DLC and more. I'm very curious to see where things will go. I just know that whatever communication is coming up next, will likely make it or break it for most people this holiday season. I do not envy the people having to pen that.

I didn’t mean specifically you

Yep , I would love having random rolls back , It feels like a punishment to get the same legendary weapon with the same rolls over and over again.

[quote]Yep , I would love having random rolls back , It feels like a punishment to get the same legendary weapon with the same rolls over and over again.[/quote] Yeah it’s sad really. There was so many variants of weapons in D1. Now it’s the same thing over and over and any bad weapon has no chance of ever being good.