No long intro just my thoughts: [b]Hand Cannons[/b] - Remove bloom (did't work well in Halo Reach either) - HCs have (arguably) the largest skill gap in the game make the the kills feel rewarding. - Make the Exotics feel as there are named. Removing bloom will do it for TLW, Boost base range for Hawkmoon, Give Thorn more accuracy and and bring the DoT to where it will kill with "Head-Body-Body" shots so it will shoot on par with the HCs used. [b]Pulses[/b] - Remove HCRs or at least from the Hawksaw and Clever Dragon families. - Use the Pulse damage layout from TTK, that was balanced until you could put max stability on the Red Death family. So minus Red Death lower the base stability making it harder to hit that 2 burst kill. [b]ARs[/b] - Bring back Y1 ARs, or something close. Sorry I don't have more on these I don't use them much. [b]Scouts[/b] - These are in a great place right now, leave them where they are. [b]Snipers[/b] - Remove the ADS flinch from the last patch. - remove the range stat, I don't think a sniper should have a range limit. Replace it with a Accuracy stat like most other games have. [b]Shotguns[/b] - Don't nerf them into the ground, but make it harder to get a kill. The high impact ones should have lower range and remove range finder from them. - Other families could use a range buff. [b]Fusions[/b] - Make the projectiles shoot tighter together and all at once. - Fix the glitch where the projectiles randomly disappear when you die making a trade impossible. - Give them a faster ready time, you almost need Quick Draw to use them right now. - A stability buff would also be helpful [b]Side Arms[/b] - These feel fine right now, there might be a balance problem with the changes I have stated above though. In that case lower the Damage a little, some of them feel like LMGs are hitting you. I also think that they should not out gun HCs, which right now they do. [b]Overall Changes[/b] - Lower the flinch on Primaries A LOT. Be able to flinch someone out of hitting their target makes getting a kill more RNG and less Skill. - Lower flinch on secondaries a little. In my opinion Sub Classes need to be looked at as well but this is just about weapons. [b][/b]

Shotguns and clever dragon need to be put in the grave, close the coffin, and never dig them up

In short, Bungie, shotguns are overly dominant largely because of the maps available in the current meta. Shotguns should be lethal at close range but the way to mitigate their effectiveness is the create maps that are not heavily cornered, as tight, etc. allowing other weapons to counter shotgun warriors on their way in. Sure have some shotgun friendly maps but also have some that are not - perhaps the current mix of map design is the problem? IMHO - This Matador 64 problem is not really a problem with shotgun, but the environment to which they can flourish - i.e. the maps...

I hate to curse - but you guys suck. And have sucked forever. I suspect you will still suck. , PLEASE can you guys please go for vacations and dont return? Great. see ya never - Stop changing things every time somebody whines about something. STOP PLEASE. A game where the rules keep changing is a joke.

Let me start by saying thank you Cozmo for a little bit of transparency, it's nice to see that from Bungie these days. Hopefully you take what's being said on these forums into consideration and looking past the one-sided "Buff this because it's my favorite, and nerf this because it kills me too much" arguments. I've been playing this game hardcore since May 2015 and I've seen the greatest times in the Crucible come and go. I've also been there when, in my opinion, things were worse than they are now (let's not forget about the Universal Remote and the Doctrine metas). I know nothing about coding or development but I can at least give feedback on what me and many others think would improve the overall enjoyment in the Crucible. I'd like to begin by saying that [i]I do not think shotguns need a nerf at all[/i], and this is coming from a two year sniper main. It's easy to put all the blame on something in the crucible when it's visibly the strongest thing on the market. Shotguns themselves are not over-powered though, [i]the problem lies within primary weapons not being able to kill someone running at you in straight line fast enough[/i]. Destiny player movement is incredibly unique, with many movement altering abilities and exotics. It's easy to close the gap between you and another player when their primary weapon does very little damage to stop you. Instead of immediately looking at shotguns as the source of the problem, try to look at the bigger picture and think, why can't I stop this guy from running at me? In Year 1 the Last Word was the perfect shotgun counter, in the middle of TTK the Doctrine would mow down any shotgun warrior. Now we have nothing to consistently stop someone from running straight at us. This was made worse by the absolute destruction of sniper rifles in the last weapon update. More people are inclined to use shotguns because snipers are not as effective. I do understand people's frustration, but nerfing another weapon type is not the way to go about it. [i] So what should we do? [/i] I believe that an overall primary weapon buff would be the most effective way of making crucible interesting and satisfying again. [b]Hand Cannons[/b] - [i]Remove bloom from hand cannons completely[/i], damage drop-off where it's at is enough of a balancing factor. Hand cannons take skill to use, and a three tap should be rewarded. - Removing bloom would also eliminate the absolute necessity for rifled barrel, as hand cannon range is directly associated with the accuracy stat - Please look at the Thorn, the Last Word, and Hawkmoon. [i]These weapons are no longer exotic feeling[/i], as they have been nerfed countless times. A weapon that is exotic should feel exotic, not just look the part. Thorn DoT is in a good place, but the accuracy this gun has is pitiful, the Last Word is lucky to hit 3 out of its 8 bullets, and the Hawkmoon... well one day hopefully this thing will hit its mark again. [b]Pulse Rifles[/b] - Revert Hawksaw archtype Pulse Rifle damage back to how it was at the release of Taken King - Revert low RoF Pulse Rifle damage back to how it was at the end of House of Wolves, there isn't even a reason to use low RoF Pulse Rifles anymore in their current state - [i]Remove HCR from high RoF Pulse Rifles[/i], they should not be out gunning Scouts at range due to a broken perk. [i]Flinch makes primary gunfights RNG[/i], which should not determine the winner and the loser. - Again, I can't think of any of the exotic Pulse Rifles being stronger than their legendary counterparts. [b]Auto Rifles[/b] - It's hard for me to speak on Auto Rifles because I have never used them, but an overall Damage buff seems favored by most. Not any of that .04% mess either. I'm talking large percentage buffs! [b]Scout Rifles[/b] - Scouts seem to be in a good place, it might be smart to put High Caliber rounds on all of them intrinsically though, as no body uses legendary Scout Rifles for anything PvP related it seems. [i]Now onto special weapons! [/i] Special weapons themselves feel wonky these days. While shotguns seem to dominate the crucible, they too at times have their fallbacks. Remember though, [u]shotguns are not the problem[/u]. [b]Sniper Rifles[/b] - I believe that an overall reduction in flinch would be an incredibly solid buff to sniper rifles. It's almost ridiculous the amount your reticle bobs all over the place when your being gunned at by a high-caliber pulse rifle. In my opinion, [i]flinch makes this game not fun[/i], and is a mechanic that should be heavily adjusted. - A reduction in body shot damage, with increased headshot damage on mid high impact snipers would be lovely, please reward us for sniping a storm caller mid Ionic Blink. [b]Shotguns[/b] - Shotguns right now feel fine, especially with the introduction of the Matador, I find my shotgun blanking much less than before. - In air accuracy on shotguns, as well as on ground accuracy could have a consistency buff? If that's even a thing. I hate it when I'm in the proper range and all of the sudden my shotgun shoots a health pack at my enemy. - Why does my shotgun seem to jam when I equip it some time? I'll pull the trigger and it won't shoot. Maybe a glitch? Or a balancing factor. /shrug [b]Fusion Rifles[/b] - I've never been one to use Fusion Rifles, but when I do, I can't kill a damn thing. - Fusion Rifle handling seems incredibly low, and they are only viable with the perk hot-swap - Fusion Rifle bolt accuracy could be buffed a bit. - Again not my strong suit, so my opinion on them should be taken lightly. This is just a view on a potential weapon balance. There's no thoughts on subclass changes here. If a post comes up asking for those, I'll express my ideas there. I'd like to add that I am by no means an amazing player who is just trying to get my way and pubstomp. I'm always looking out for the casual player, as well as the dude that likes to bring his No Land Beyond and favorite Fusion Rifle into a Control match and still do well with them. Hopefully this post can bring attention to what me and many of my friends feel like the problem with the Crucible is. If anyone has questions or feedback to share on my ideas, I would love to hear them. [b]tl;dr[/b] - [u]Shotguns are not the problem[/u]. - Shotguns seem like the problem because primaries are too weak to stop them. - [u]Buff primaries[/u] (remove bloom, increase AR damage, increase low RoF Pulse Damage). - Remove HCR from Pulse Rifles (Flinch is not a fun mechanic). - Make sniping great again.

1. Buff armor piercing rounds and anything that says "penetrate" to allow it to go through juggernaut shield. 2. Change stickies (fusions, flux and magnetic) to work like hunter smoke bombs. 3. Either change suppressor grenade or tether. A grenade CANNOT be better than a super. 4. Change skorri. I WILL NOT allow camping to be condoned.

for the love of god please nerf the Clever Dragon!!!!!!!

Your weapon system is inaccurate. I compared the clever dragon and the blind perdition(adept) to the Monte Carlo for pvp. The Monte Carlo has been my favorite since y1. When I did this it shows Monte Carlo has more fire rate, more impact, more range, even more reload speed then the clever dragon. But the clever dragon does more damage and does more in range. Hmmm makes no sense. Compare Monte to blind perdition. Monte has higher fire rate, tiny bit more impact a little bit less stability but more range. But again blind perdition does more damage. I've done up to 25 damage with the blind and 23 with the clever dragon. Monte does 20. Has more impact and range then both of them. I'm just using this as an example because your damn weapon system doesn't make sense. Why does a last word that has less range then a matador but shoots further? And honestly It's not the secondary weapons that need fixing it definitely is the primary. You have handcannons that have more range then scout rifles.??? Really? You do another nerf and I'm done. Just fix what's broken. If people complain cause they get killed with shot guns up close. Then they're stupid. If they complain cause they get sniped in the head. They have no complaint. Just fix it.

Make auto rifles like year 1 launch. Make hand cannons like the Thorn /Last Word meta Make pulse rifles good like the Red Death days. Give MIDA high cal rounds again Give machine guns their ammo back Bring back original Field Scout perk. Make special ammo less available, like how heavy ammo drops-miss it you loose it; promoting team play This should solve most if not all?

I shouldn't get killed if I take a shotgun blast in the leg. A single shotgun blast anywhere on the body kills you, which is just ridiculous. Meanwhile I can unload 4 handgun shots in someone's chest point blank and they continue to charge full stem. A close range hand cannon blast should stagger an opponent, be more powerful than it currently is and a shotgun blast to an extremity should do damage but not be an automatic kill. Also head and torso shots should do more damage for autorifles, pulse rifles and sidearms.

For the love of everything good, change trials to skirmish or salvage so people stop hiding at the back of the map I don't want to play 10+ minutes trials games

I reckon hate will be incoming for this Vex mythoclast deserves to be op Buff it?

We complain a lot in destiny but I've tried playing battlefield and overwatch. It doesn't come close to destiny's gun play. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FMTbbXv6yNQ

The problem here is very simple, Guardians are better at complaining than they are at fighting.

What do we do in a different meta though, like someone who attacks you with a pointed stick? [spoiler]🍪 if you guess the reference[/spoiler]

Hand cannons should not need rifled barrel to be useable. As it is now, if they don't have rifled barrel they are an insta-dismantle. Auto rifles of every type need a buff. Increase weapon swap speed. Takes too long to switch to your shotgun so there is no incentive to use a primary. You're better off using shotgun only.