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11/1/2015 9:32:20 AM
3
The neutral game is on par or better than Gunslinger, not sure what you're getting at, but Gunslinger has completely useless perks(Scavenger, really? that's your argument?", the only thing I see people really complain about is the defense Sunbreakers have, I mean really, not getting one shot by a high impact sniper? I hit a Stormcaller earlier, he had max armor + a chest that added armor for arc based subclasses for 209, he instantly died. Later in the match I sniped a Sunbreaker in the face for 188, he had max armor, and a chest that added armor for solar subclasses. Let me tell you why that is wrong.
1). He has hammers that have absolutely no damage dropoff, even if he throws it across the map, even GG has damage dropoff due to hand cannon nerfs.
2). Highest defense of any subclass, with the potential to wipe out whole teams(No other class can take as much damage, OR kill as many people, you can't name one that has both).
3.) Tracking hammers(yes they move 3-5 feet and have proximity detonation), no damage dropoff, make enemies explode, and regenerate health on kill.
I have a Sunbreaker, the chance of dying in your super is slim to none unless you're a retard. The Neutral game is NOT bad as people say it is, you have fusion grenades, incendiary grenades, a one shot melee on low armor targets and Thermite grenade for crowd control. Also, all grenades and charged melee grant Cauterize(health regen, doesn't only work for the super). Also, if you want to go another way with the whole subclass, you can have grenades every 13 seconds with max discipline, which means you can basically spam grenades almost forever, especially if you are using the Armamentarium Y1 chest piece in regular Crucible.
Sunbreakers have enough neutral game, better than MOST classes, enough to sacrifice that extra 5% damage reduction they get in their super to maintain a high level of play. 5% damage reduction would not ruin the super, or the subclass in general.
I can walk into a room with 5 people in it with my Sunbreaker because guess what? If I get ONE hammer on a person, the other 4 are screwed, there's no way they will kill me, even with heavy ammo, and that's the problem with Sunbreakers.
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Ok here's my problem with your argument. First off you come in mentioning Gunslingers perks such as scavenger which I admit in this new meta (less ammo crates) isn't as good. However something almost everyone forgets is the little things such as a melee which can go as far as you freaking want, and you can have 2 of them, vs T-rex arms. This is huge!! Lets not forget tripmines which are basically a lightning grenade and a fusion grenade in one. I am not debating whether or not Sunbreaker is an awesome super. However imo you're not really using all the tools you have at your disposal if you can never kill HoS. I mean Nightstalkers in particular baffle me. All they have to do is shoot their void arrow a little bit in advance and no more HoS!! I mean they have the best radar in game this should be an easy feat. Same goes with nova, foh, GG etc... The problem is that although yes the grenades are decent and cauterize is nice as well as simmering flames (which forces you to completely give up simmering flames and your own super btw). If you're going to mention old gear then Hunters have no room to complain at all with aclyophage symbiote in the picture. The problem is that the Titans melee range is almost nothing compared to the other 2 classes, especially the new ones which have insane melee range. So the only time you'll get cauterize to work consistently is with your grenades and that is only if the burn ends up killing them and not your own bullets. Lets take a look at the other classes. Nightstalker: Shade step, marking enemies through walls, pinpoint map, invisible grenades which can be used with your teamates, etc... Stormcaller, regen all abilities with all your abilities, regen super just by staying near teamates, even longer melee range, melee attacks supercharge your own, TLALOC etc... Its not really a contest about who has the better neutral game. The problem is that others want HoS to be on the same level as the new subclasses supers while keeping their neutral game as is. I am sorry but its very clear that the Sunbreakers neutral game while decent is massively overshadowed by the plethora of perks the new Subclasses get for their neutral games.
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Although Gunslinger has increased melee range, go try throwing knives out and see how many people you hit, most people strafe, which ruins throwing knives. Nightstalker invisibility, I mean, are you serious? You can still see people invisible, I have sniped many many people who are stupid enough to use vanishing smoke, shade step shows exactly where you're going, has no invincibility frames and only saves you if you use it insanely fast to jump to a corner, it doesn't save lives that much. I wasn't talking about weapons, Tialoc is insanely nice, but you know who uses it? Sunsingers who have Self rez, go ahead and self rez, gonna snipe you right in the face. Only Warlocks have huge melee range, that Thunderstrike range is incredible.. Smoke bomb against any "decent" player does nothing, they either move out of your line of sight, or keep shooting at you, it's not all that great. If you hit ANYONE with Sunstrike, their HP is down to a sliver, with the highest armor, I'm guessing this was to combat the small melee range Titans have, it is actually better than it was in Y1, I have noticed a huge difference, it's not the same, it also regenerates health, and recharges your melee if you get a kill with it. Not sure why you bring the Nightstalker's minimap into this, sure, it shows you were the person is, but guess what? So does their minimap, you think they're not waiting on you to pop around that corner? Hammer of Sol completely outclasses all the new subclasses, even in neutral game, and especially in their super. If you can really defend Sunbreaker, I'm guessing you're biased and main a Titan? I have played Sunbreaker, you know how many times I've died in my super since it came out? Maybe 5, AT MOST, and that's only because 3 people teamed up on me across the map, ACROSS THE MAP. Stop defending something is obviously too strong. I can't wait until they nerf it into the ground, will just go defender at that point for PvP.
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Actually I know what I am talking about here because Gunslinger was my main during House of Wolves and The Dark Below. Throwing knives are fine, the times you miss is when you try to hit somebody from wayy far away. If they're even close to fusion rifle range you can hit them fine. At the very least at Warlock range (which is greater than Titan range) you'll get consistent throws. I seriously can't believe how you don't think wiping your entire team off the radar for a surprise attack isn't useful. Compared to what Titans T-rex arms? You may have still sniped them but I am sure it made it a little bit harder due to no radar. Well this must just be differences in play style but shade step save my life so much its ridiculous. I can do crap that I wouldn't be able to without it. Shade step is incredible if you know how to use it. I am talking about entire classes here, that includes everything about that class. To do otherwise wouldn't be looking at the whole picture. Umm Sunsingers aren't the only class to use TLALOC I am sure of that. Wait what? Technically Hunters have the greatest melee range in the game. The only instance this isn't true is blade dancer vs storm caller with their increased melee perk active. Throwing knives and smoke grenades can be chucked half a map away. Sure that's not going to do anything (in most cases), but it just attests to the range on the hunters melee perks. Smoke bomb damages you. Good player or not that's useful. Gunslingers melee can do the same. Sure you got to get a head shot but the range on your melee is so much greater its not even a stretch. At Titan melee ranges that head shot is basically guaranteed. Yea the problem is that 1 its hard to make sure that the melee is the thing that kills you and 2 good luck getting in that close. It can't be relied on consistently unlike the other classes perks. Umm their mini map tells you exactly where the target is where other maps just give you an idea. The marking feature basically gives you a head start on encounters where you can damage the opponent first. Grenades, smoke bombs. Not only that but it makes escape harder for the target as well. HoS is not a class. Sorry but HoS can be countered by other supers. Its not so much better that this is impossible. I mean come on Nova bomb=dead sunbreaker as long as the user has some degree of skill. Heck that's being generous you don't need skill to chuck a nova bomb at a brightly lit sunbreaker mid super. I am just saying that if the super be brought down on the level of the other classes then the rest of the class should also be on the level of the other new subclasses. I don't see how you can't see that the Sunbreakers neutral game isn't anywhere close to the others. I mean just count the number of neutral game perks and compare the base abilities to each other. Its not even close. I don't main a Titan. I use all three of my classes. I've leveled up my Titan sufficiently and am now moving on to my Hunter. Once that is done I'll be moving on to my Warlock. Then I'll probably shade step the heck out of every body, loving it atm. [b] You're still talking about HoS. I am talking about Sunbreakers. I agree HoS may be a bit much. However I can't see in what world that the rest of the class is up to snuff at all. You even agree that Defender has a better neutral game than Sunbreaker. Defender by no means has a neutral game that can compare to the new subclasses. [/b]
