Overpowered means unbeatable. If there are ways to counter a gun, it is beatable. The reason people like OP must post about countering the thorn is because many people have this mindset that thorn is simply a god tier weapon that cant be stopped. So the easiest way to convince someone otherwise is to take a calm approach and say things like "find ways to counter thorn" instead of something like "git gud skrubs, thorn is trash, i kill thorn users 24/7 if you die to thorn then ur just bad." See?

Terrible argument. The issue with thorn is that it kills faster than everything. This is not opinion. This is fact. If two equal skilled players are in the same game but using different weapons, the player with the better weapon will always win. [i]but thorn is beatable so it's not OP[/i] [b]NO[/b] it is OP bc it is so efficient. It's not about whether a weapon is [u]beatable[/u] it is about how easily it is beaten. And thorn, is the most difficult gun to beat by a long shot.

I dont remember thorn killing faster than TLW, red death, the messenger, or any other high impact pulse rifle. Plenty of weapons kill faster than thorn. Thorn is simply easier to use since its one bullet to land per trigger pull when compared to three. The very definition of something being overpowered (in a video game context) is that there is no counterplay. Thorn has plenty of counterplay. And thorn is not the best weapon so your scenario works against your claim. Of course if someone is using a hard light, thorn will win. Same thing with the messenger. Same thing with TLW. Same thing with a sniper. Same thing with any gun that is simply better. But thorn is not the best, just the easiest to use. Ever heard of "high risk-high reward" well thorn is very low risk with a medium reward. Red death is very efficient, TLW is insanely efficient, the messenger can two burst even without hitting all headshots with the headseeker perk. Therefore being very efficient and even more so than red death imo. Thorn [i]is[/i] easily beatable. And i assume when you said "everything" you meant primaries but if not, any special weapon can one hit someone instantly so theres another problem there with your claim of thorn killing the fastest. Your thorn "fact" wasnt backed up by anything but what you claimed it wasnt. An opinion.

Thorn kills in two shots. The dot finishes them. Thorn is low risk, highest reward. If it is counter able, then hop into a rumble game with a player around your skill level. They can use thorn or tlw, and you can use anything else. They are also allowed to use final round snipes. Let me know how helpless you feel when facing [b]superior[/b] weaponry.

Final round snipers were never in your argument. I showed you examples of weapons superior to thorn. Thorn is a two shot if both hit on the head. I could get someone around my skill level and hop on rumble and kill them with a messenger while theyre using thorn. Or a red death. Or a spare change. Or a tlw. And if thorn is that big of a problem then why not just use it? If [b]you[/b] cant beat them, join em. [b]I[/b] will ontinue using weapons [b]superior[/b] to thorn and wrecking shit with them. And if i feel like using thorn, ill use that too and wreck face with it and send more scrubs like you to the forums crying for nerfs because of your own lack of skill and ability to counter someone elses weapon choice and play style.

So are you implying that final round snipes are OP? Bc there is a counter to them so they must not be OP Also... Thorn is even more superior if you minimize exposure which is what you should do anyway. You're also not accounting thorns bugged final round. Burst weapons cannot compete with this common strat.

Nothing in my reply noted towards anything about final round snipers being over powered, you simply did not specify until i showed you weapons that could outperform the thorn. And i do believe final round snipers are an exploitable and broken mechanic. The counterplay to final round is simply greater skill. Which is the [b]only[/b] counterplay other than using it yourself. So by those means, final round snipers are op. And an inconsistent bug such as thorn's final round going off before the actual last round is not a strategy that can be relied on, so your argument doesnt make any sense. And by the way, what is this counter to final round snipers that you speak of? Because empty claims are worth as much as a pile of crap to anyone with any real sense. I enjoy debating about topics that can be disagreed upon but not simple arguments with uninformed people that claim to know "facts" without any real evidence or at the very least, logical reasoning. Stop blaming your own inability to counter someone using a thorn on the gun and realize that you need to just get better and learn to deal with it. Adapt. Change your loadouts. If you believe that all the people using thorn should change so that you and a minority of other players can have one less thing to worry about in the crucible then there is something wrong. Get used to it. Its not overpowered and its not broken. If someone picks up a thorn, they dont become gods at pvp. Theyre still just as good as they were before. If you cant counter a thorn, then you dont have as much skill as you think you do. Pvp is about constantly changing your playstyle and strategy in order to counter the enemies you face so that you may overcome them. Why shouldnt you have to counter a specific gun? Because its over used? That actually makes things easier because that means theres less for you to learn how to counter if everyone is using the same gun. Please try to understand what youre talking about before reaching out to the forums in an effort to make someone else look stupid. The only one looking that way is you. I would enjoy a reply so that we can finish this conversation, but from what youve given me so far, i can only assume it will be more crap spewed across a reply with no evidence or reasoning behind it. Please continue on with your life without replying to me and i hope you become more educated before you enter debates on a highly disagreed upon topic such as this.

I mean if one gun is being talked about so much it must be op...

its OU.. over used thats why everyone talks about it