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Edited by Chubby Belly:
10/26/2023 3:24:26 PM
23
How did humanity survive the first collapse knowing what we know now?
From the very first moments of Destiny 1, we're told that the darkness had found us at one point, enclosed on the Traveler and almost took out humanity as a whole during what was known as the Collapse. But the Traveler pushed back and forced the darkness away. We know these references are most likely to the black fleet at the point, but I'm just a little bit confused because of what we know now about the black fleet. Massive and over-powering. How were the ships pushed away from us so far? How did the Witness essentially go dormant for centuries when they knew where the Traveler was all this time? I'm just curious about these things, because simply knowing the power of the Witness, the disciples, these ships, the darkness, I'm baffled as to how humanity survived the fleet the first time and then somehow veiled ourselves from them for all this time.
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1 ReplySavathun created an illusion to trick the Witness. Most likely, the illusion was the traveler being destroyed, which would explain why the Witness returned to dark space because he would have had no purpose. Meanwhile Savathun also used random humans to cast a hive spell to trap the traveler on earth and Savathun killed Nezarec as well as helped to conceal the veil.
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10 RepliesBecause of savathun. As explained during witch queen. If you played witch queen you would know.
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Do any lore nerds know if the song savathun taught the human family to pass down through generations had anything to do with it?
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We survived the collapse largely due to Savathun’s intervention. She is not only a master deceiver but potentially the most knowledgeable entity in the story. She has continuously pitted everyone against each other to forward her own goals - which at times has benefitted us and other times… not so much. Even at this point in time, we have to assume there are still more cards up her sleeve.
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10 RepliesThe collapse is just a loop, y'all are literally about to repeat and I'm going to enjoy your "victory". See ya in about another ten years, then another ten years after that...and we will start it all over again.
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6 RepliesSame way humanity survived the Covenant
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14 RepliesEdited by Pjerisimus: 10/27/2023 10:20:57 AMBecause they made up story on the go. It was never supposed to be good or without plot holes. It just had to have begging, end and make somewhat sense.
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We don’t know many of the details surrounding the Collapse. We know that the Traveler unleashed an attack so powerful it put itself into a coma and splintered its Light into Ghosts. We know Savathûn killed Nezerac, stole the Veil and hid it on Neptune. We also know Savathûn deceived the Witness to some capacity to keep the Traveler safe, most likely lying about the fact it was still alive. We also know that the waves of Light the Traveler emitted when it woke up during the Red War activated the Black Fleet once more. It would’ve nice if this year could’ve seen more details about the Collapse being discussed.
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[quote]From the very first moments of Destiny 1, we're told that the darkness had found us at one point, enclosed on the Traveler and almost took out humanity as a whole during what was known as the Collapse. But the Traveler pushed back and forced the darkness away. We know these references are most likely to the black fleet at the point, but I'm just a little bit confused because of what we know now about the black fleet. Massive and over-powering. How were the ships pushed away from us so far? How did the Witness essentially go dormant for centuries when they knew where the Traveler was all this time? I'm just curious about these things, because simply knowing the power of the Witness, the disciples, these ships, the darkness, I'm baffled as to how humanity survived the fleet the first time and then somehow veiled ourselves from them for all this time.[/quote] This is what happens when you write stories by committee.
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Plot armor. Do you think Bungie actually plots this stuff out in a logical pattern? They plan like a 5-year-old telling a story. Its painfully obvious that they haven't developed a main course of action(narrative), backed up by secondary or tertiary narratives to support the main effort. First, second, third order of effects aren't taken to account for changes.
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They all got heaps and heaps of plot armor!
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Edited by Vongola654: 10/28/2023 3:32:24 AMThe correct answer might be the simplest one. The Traveler went dormant after the Collapse, and the Veil had been stolen by Savathun and hidden away elsewhere. In its dormant state, the Traveler's Light definitely wouldn't have been enough for the Witness to create the portal, even if it still had the Veil on hand. So, it left Sol or was forced out by the expenditure of power that made the Traveler go dormant, and waited until the Traveler fully reawakened from dormancy, which occurred at the end of the Red War. Then in [i]Lightfall[/i], it immobilized the Traveler with the Pyramid Fleet and used the Traveler to find where the Veil had been hidden. EDIT: As for what Savathun did to help save Humanity during the Collapse, she is currently alive and we have one more Season before the Final Shape. Whatever she did, it potentially has to do with her stealing the Veil and hiding it away. As mentioned above, the Witness immobilized the Traveler and used it to find where the Veil was.
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The only way I can think of is Savathun must have created some kind of illusion that made it appear that we were wiped out. Then once The Witness moved on, she dropped the illusion.
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1 ReplyBuddy had the traveler locked down and was crushing humanity and you expect me to believe he wouldn’t just spawn camp the traveler while his minions looked for the veil? Yeah right.
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1 ReplyEdited by jhermannITJ: 10/27/2023 5:10:22 PMBecause THERE IS NO LIGHT HERE 😉 They are people in these comments that have heard a developed theory that explains everything... & predicted much of it. Mine. Convenient how the "heroes" are immortal but the "evils" aren't... not anymore, some were. Curious how all those "evils" are rivals and potential threats to... Savathun. It's a facade. The Witness, like Cronus of Greek Myth... IS a soul stealer. He/They dammed the junction of the Universe at the point of singularity called the pale heart. Wurm holes do not have a fixed point in space time... that's why the Traveler can move. The Traveler is a cosmic conduit/generator of power like a hydroelectric dam. Tldr, The Witness was not ready for the Final Shape yet. That's why. There's a multiverse in Destiny... the pale heart, the singularity allows the Witness to siphon energy from every universe... every timeline at once. The Awoken aren't even supposed to be here... nor Elsie. They are all here as a result of the singularity that exists inside the Traveler. The fundament, the distributary... exist within the same place during the same event. The confusion comes with the volatility of time so near the singularity... where the strength of gravity impacts... contracts and expands time so dynamically. This isn't made up fictional stuff either, these concepts and ideas exist in real word physics.
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Maximum woke. Humanity had heroes like "the hulk". His secret? He's always triggered. This is real retconned story written by a genuine evergreen state uni grad.
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11 RepliesConfusion is the right response to it. The Witness lost the Veil yet for some reason decided to spare humanity? The Disciples showed mercy? The Hive didn’t use their Logic? Yea, it doesn’t make sense because it’s wholly counter to their natures. When people say it’s because of Savathun, that also makes no sense. Who but one of his own could of taken down Nez and stole it from him? Therefore the culprit was one of his own and yet…didn’t bother asking? So yeah, it makes [i]zero sense[/i] for humanity not to have been wiped out. That’s why they’ve never touched it. They couldn’t explain it. The real reason involves the original storyline. The OG storyline had the Gardner as the source of paracausal power. Kill the Gardner and it all goes away. Remember, the whole franchise was meant to end, not this never ending cash grab crap. When it was wounded and was falling into a coma, it put out an shield of sorts that kept the Dark side enemies away. That explains why the Hive and Vex didn’t steam roll us post Collapse. Something that also doesn’t make sense when you think about it. That’s why in the base D1 grimoire card series, The Dreams of Alpha Lupi, the Gardner talks about the Shell being a cage, it’s memory being tampered with and a feeling it was being herded through the cosmos. There’s no more details than that really. Most of this comes from the leaked contract between Bungie and Act way back in the early years. Oh yeah, the Vex origin was retconned as well. They were originally meant to be the converted remains of fallen civilizations. So likely that was supposed to be our fate had the Gardner not made the Guardians and that shield. But all of this was changed prior to release. They decided to change the story months before release and cut up the base game to stitch together the campaign. And that’s why after ten years, Bungie has only finished one storyline. The Cabal. They were supposed to tell the whole thing in ten years. Everything. Instead they’ve spent all this time retconning one iteration of the story after another. I think we are on the sixth one now. OG, base D1, TTK, base D2, Forsaken, SK-present. They should be embarrassed but they only care about making money.
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12 RepliesEdited by Guardian,Archon Of Light: 10/26/2023 5:32:21 PM
Guardian,Archon Of LightBlade Of The Traveler - old
Savathun got the Witness to believe the Traveler was dead , so there was no point in staying in sol, so they left before completely wiping us out And the Traveler pretended to sleep , to keep the witness fooled, but in intervening against Ghaul , it gave itself away -
1 ReplySavathun rebelled against the witness, killing nezarec, trapping rhulk and hiding the veil. Crota is held hostage to stop humanity from finding the black ship. And to deter oryx from coming to earth. The witness who detests violence believed that a single fleet ship was all it would take to defeat humanity. Which without savathuns intervention would have been true.
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7 Repliesi was wondering the opposite how was the collapse so devastating when all we've seen the pyramids do is float around looking ominous
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I doubt bungie know it, let byf or whoever lore youtuber make things out of those lore
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Savathun & Rasputin
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Here's what I think: Black Fleet arrives with Veil, Savvy kills Nezerac causing the ship to crash onto the moon. The Traveler uses all of its strength to push back the darkness midconflict (so much that it went dormant). The Black Fleet flesh from the Darkness, Savvy hides the Veil on Neptune (likely because as stated before, tech works strangely and it would be difficult to track). I think at this point, Savvy flees, and the Witness hunts her down to take back the Veil. Also, I think they couldn't enter the Traveler unless it was awake, so when that happened the Traveller headed back.
