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10/13/2018 5:45:30 AM
25
I couldn't agree more. It's not as though anybody can do it like the Atheon or Crota cheese. You need to get the stack all the buffs properly and be at a high enough level to actually pull it off.
It's annoying hearing people complain about it when they can simply choose to run it the long way if they like. A lot of the people complaining are doing so because they are not a high enough level yet and instead of making their own group try to join on a group specifically asking for a high light level.
English
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In a gaming scene the word cheese is used to describe strategies or ways of playing that are really powerful and do not require much skill from the players side at the same time. The term is widely used both in video games and tabletop games alike. I dont care how people choose to run it, but technically it is a cheese. It takes basically no skill to do. The level required is not a measurement of skill, and the fact that all you need is one person with tractor cannon, one with super rift, and 5 with void cluster rockets and any sniper, means it most definitely takes no skill.
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Considering I've been gaming for almost 40 years I'm pretty sure I understand how the term cheese has been used and from myself or anyone in my circle the cluster strat isn't a cheese it's a strat. A cheese is pushing Atheon off the map with solar grenades, unplugging your Ethernet cable to keep Crota on his knees or glitching/exploring so there's no adds etc. Achieving high dps by maximum buffs, weapons and light level/power is not a cheese. It's a legitimate strat that's been used in games since forever.
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Edited by Nickel7Dime: 10/13/2018 4:42:50 PMThen you are your entire group dont know what you are talking about and have consistently been using the wrong word. You seem to more so be thinking of an exploit, not a cheese. As the definition says, a cheese can also be refered to as a type of strategy, it is just a cheesy strategy. Fact of the matter is, the method in question takes little to no skill, it is therefore a cheese. You can go look it up yourself if you dont believe me, basically every definition says about the same thing (although some like urban dictionary add in the words "lame" to describe it as well). PS: those that made the actual definition have been gaming for a lot longer, if that is going to be your claim to legitimacy.
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ok dude, I respect your opinion but don't agree with it at all. We're not going to agree as me and the people ive grown up with have known the definition to be one thing, while clearly youve used it in a different context and I'm certainly not going to have a petty argument with someone online over something like this lmao. I've thrown in my 2 cents which is what I came here to do.
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Edited by Nickel7Dime: 10/13/2018 4:58:13 PMActually what i said isnt an opinion, it is technically fact. The actually decided upon and written down definitions of things are not opinions they are considered facts. Now mind you these definitions can change over time, however that typically requires a vast majority to accept the new definition. Until that happens it remains a fact. This isnt me using it in a "different context" this is me using the actual definition. That is a pretty big difference to me honest. And i will admit that in the past i have used the word incorrectly as well, then i actually looked up the definition.
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Point me to where it is written that maximising buffs and dps to melt a boss in one phase is considered a cheese. Until you show me this written definition I'm not going to change my mind and still consider it your opinion and not fact.
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Edited by Nickel7Dime: 10/13/2018 5:07:09 PMThat is exactly what that first thing i showed you was. It was a written definition, it wasnt just some random thing i personally came up with. It is literally the first thing to come up when you search for definitions of cheese in gaming. The maxing of your DPS itself isnt always considered cheesing since depending on the situation it may take a great amount of skill to do. But in this case it takes little to no skill, and thus it is considered a cheese.
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You haven't showed me anything and when I search I can't find your definition. I can find lots and lots of people that have differing opinions such as myself and you. Again though, you're entitled to your opinion and that's cool I just agree with it.
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Edited by Nickel7Dime: 10/13/2018 5:20:49 PMhttps://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3fterm=cheese%2bstrategy&=true Here is the one from urban dictionary. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/cheesing Here is another, this one states that it includes glitches, but it is more than just that.
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Interesting. I still don't think it's applicable to this situation, but it's ok. We can different opinions.
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Whether it applies to this specific situation is debatable, like most things. Some may argue that the strategy takes skill and co-ordination, while others (such as myself), would argue it takes basically no skill in order to do the strategy itself, all it takes is level and equipment. But to actually have a debate about it, both sides should probably first know what the definition is of the thing they are arguing about. Also i added a second link to a second definition (stupid app erases what i wrote when i go back and forth between pages), not sure if you saw that edit.
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I See your 2nd link no worries. Interesting. What I've grown up calling cheap I guess other people have called cheese. It's almost like finding out Santa clause isn't real.
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Hahahaha, ya. Definitions can be tricky. Though it is likely that "cheese" was just kind of changed form of the word "cheap" in regards to gaming, but people wanted a different word than simply referring to it as being cheap, cheese just as that extra bit of i guess "shame?" Attached to it. It is a rather old term, but where it seems to have gotten popular is from fighting games, where certain characters had moves that people would call cheese moves, since they could just spam said moves and basically win the match without using any real skill.
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Yeah I see a street fighter example in this thread but the one that stands out to me is the low sweep spam in the original Mortal Kombat lol
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Yup, they were legal moves, and not technically an issue with the game like a glitch or bug, but they were moves considered cheap and cheesy to do.
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No your wrong. Push atheon or pulling your cord for crota is a glitch and the strat we use for Ravin is a cheese, a cheesy strat. I've been gaming since atari
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I've been gaming since C64 but that's pretty irrelevant. For me and the people around me it's not a cheese it's a legitimate strat. Some people may think it's a cheap strat and that's debatable.
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Look, it is a cheese. And I love it, and will continue to do it until it's patched, but let's call it what it is, a cheesy strat.
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It's a cheese. You cut out all of the mechanics and stack everyone in 1 room. I hope they fix this quickly by forcing you to have 3 people in the opposite room or else it'll just wipe you. If they do I'll laugh seeing very few people actually know how to do the raid legit.
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It's not a cheese. Bungie themselves have said it's not a cheese in a recent gamesrader interview. If they do patch it I will also laugh at the people that don't know how to do it properly. The same way I did when they patch the actual Calus cheese where u despawn the adds. If people on lfg think it's bad now, it'll be even worse if it is changed. I doubt very much you'll (not aimed at u personally) get into a group without being 590/600 light with experience because people just want to get the raid done.
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[quote]It's not a cheese. Bungie themselves have said it's not a cheese in a recent gamesrader interview. If they do patch it I will also laugh at the people that don't know how to do it properly. The same way I did when they patch the actual Calus cheese where u despawn the adds. If people on lfg think it's bad now, it'll be even worse if it is changed. I doubt very much you'll (not aimed at u personally) get into a group without being 590/600 light with experience because people just want to get the raid done.[/quote] No... no they didn't. https://www.gamesradar.com/destiny-2s-raid-team-lead-talks-cheeses-secrets-dungeons-and-the-influence-of-old-school-mario/2/
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Edited by Lymie2021: 10/13/2018 12:54:55 PMThat's the interview. They were directly asked if they thought it was a cheese or glitch. They said they are monitoring it and are interested to see how people tackle that encounter. With regards to other scenarios they had no issues stating that they were legit, glitches or cheese.
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Edited by FataLVisioN_Oo: 10/13/2018 1:01:00 PM[quote]That's the interview. They were directly asked if they thought it was a cheese or glitch. They said they are monitoring it and are interested to see how people tackle that encounter. With regards to other scenarios they had no issues stating that they were legit, glitches or cheese.[/quote] That is what they have been saying about everything since D1. It is there way of letting the people that don't think it's a cheese feel like it's a strat but they will fix it anyway and hope those people won't get upset but they will. Can't count how many times I've read that same line before they changed something that was "perfectly fine". They didn't say they are interested to see how people are going to tackle the encounter. More like they are unsure how to fix it atm.
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That's purely your opinion and you are wildly speculating on what you think Bungies motivation was for the way they replied. The facts are they were asked if they thought it was a cheese, glitch or legit strat and ultimately are still trying to work out what's best for that encounter. This was after previously confirming other things were cheeses/glitches.
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I'm not speculating at all. It'll be fixed it's just a matter of when. They didn't say it was a legit strat either now did they? No. Why is that? Because they want people to actually do the mechanics that they worked on instead of cheesing the encounter by bypassing everything.
