The first time I ever heard the word cheese used to describe a tactic was in the Street Fighter 2 arcade game. Ryu could use a crouching light kick jump attack that an opponent would have to be frame-perfect to counter. If they got hit by it, then Ryu could crouch and spam the low light kick super fast until the opponent got knocked down and woke up dizzy. Ryu would throw the person into the corner, rinse repeat, done. If the player blocked Ryu's initial jumping light kick attack, Ryu could press in and shoulder throw the opponent immediately. Then Ryu could jump in at the opponent as they were getting back on their feet, rinse, repeat, done. Other characters had similar combos, and they were all considered cheese, even though the game mechanics fully allowed it and there was no glitching involved. Whenever a player would engage in these cheeses, it usually resulted in the next challenger choosing Guile to magic throw, handcuffs, and then heavy kick freeze until the timer ran out, which froze the game until it was turned off and on again. Or, magic throw into Guiles glitch combo which would take away all of the enemies health, and cause the game to reset to the insert coin screen. The Ryu moves were cheese, the Guile moves were glitches. Both were patched out in later editions of the game. People hated the cheesers mote than the glitchers because it was super rare to see someone glitch in a PvP game, while the cheeses were super common and easily accomplished by noobs, and were only able to be consistently countered by players who could play by frames. So when it comes to a cheese, I do think that the cluster tactic falls into that category. At the same time, I dont care because they aren't ruining my game or wasting my quarters. I haven't done the new raid yet because I just recently got high enough light level to do it, and my friends are still too low. But when we do, we are going to do it legit, and after several runs, who knows, maybe we'll try the cheese methods just for kicks or to save time. But really, I dont think it even matters if you cheese or not, if you're playing and having fun and not ruining someone else's day, go for it. If you read this whole TL;DR, thanks for taking the time to hear my opinion. Whatever your opinion is, I respect it and just hope you're having fun with whatever games you're playing.

Ii hope with tomorrow’s patch they implement some kind of resistance immune system if Riven takes too much damage too quickly or only get rewards if the full raid is completed to the end, no more of these idiots getting in on check points while others do it fully legit

It IS a cheese because you are negating all mechanics of the fight. That’s technically what a cheese is.

“Cheese” or not it requires little skill and zero understanding of the fight.. I’ll pass

It is a cheese and those that think it is not are completely ignorant and incapable of doing the mechanics. Is it an exploit? No. But it is a cheese and one that I (and many others) hope Bungie addresses. It takes no skill to do it.

The cluster strat I used is a cheese because we skipped all the mechanics. Won't say how so Bungo can't fix it ;)

Indeed, no cheese. You only use mechanics and weapons that are in the game. I hope Bungie will not roll out a "fix".

Games gives gun. Guardian uses gun. Gun called “crutch”. Game requires Strategy. Guardians use Strategy, Strategy called “cheese”. Wonder what these f’ktards would call Food at a Supermarket?

Who cares?

I'm 553 and have a tracking cluster rocket launcher with boss spec, someone invite and carry? Lol

These are probably the same people that cried about the no knight strategy for Oryx. The fact is they are the best and most efficient way to complete the encounters.

It's not a cheese. It's a strategy. You can kill Atheon by stacking a Weapons of Light and Armor of Light bubble and shooting him down with the Touch of Malice, completely ignoring the teleportation phases. Is that a cheese, or is that efficiency? People are so misinformed as to what a cheese is that they call anything that isn't exactly by-the-book mechanics of a raid a cheese, because god forbid people actually want to try something different in a raid. A cesspool of ignoramuses who can't think for themselves want to bring others down to their level. Typical Destiny behavior.

The fact that it is easier for a low light team to beat it regular than with cluster rockets should prove that it's not really a cheese.

I did the cluster strategy and got 1000 voices last night

Lmao it is a cheese. Playing the fight legit is hard you need coms and being able to understand eyes and symbols. Not many groups do it legit because it's hard. People are only defending this method to feel better about there selfs because they don't have the time to learn it legit or even have players who are up for it. The fight is not forgiven one miss shot eye is a wipe. To slow wipe. To fast wipe. No stun wipe. People who think is not a cheese are misinformed about the final boss of riven.

It is a cheese...but genuinely who cares? At the end of the day a strategy was discovered using the rules of the game world itself to evolve a new path to defeating Riven. There is nothing wrong with doing that. There is something wrong though with those who prefer to not do that method to question or judge those who do. The purpose of a game is to entertain. If people are being fulfilled in cheesing Riven and are having fun why should you who doesn’t want to do that care? If applied to real life if 2 employees work at the same store walk to work each day and one of them decides after walking a few times to go out and buy a car to drive, does the employee who still walk to work earn more money because they walk? No. Can you imagine how ridiculous a conversation would sound if the employee who still walked to work told the one who drives they cheesed their job and don’t enjoy it as much as them because they walk to work? It’s a game meant to entertain. If people are entertained doing cheese then let them eat cheese. If people are entertained going through each step then keep stepping my friend. But judging people for how they have fun and condemning them for it is the real exploit that needs to be patched in this community.

Cheesy - INFORMAL cheap, unpleasant, or blatantly inauthentic Seems like it's a cheese according to google... I consider a cheese to be just that. Something easy or cheap. I consider an exploit to be the abuse of a cheese or glitch to achieve more than was obviously intended. And cheating is entirely subjective.

Does it bypass the basic mechanics of an encounter? At least with Atheon you were forced to get Atheon to an actual damage phase before the push off.

The tactic itself isn’t a cheese I actually prefer the ratking method cause......well I love it lmao. However the one part to be argued that it’s a cheese is that Bungie certainly didn’t intend on us playing a 50/50 guessing game on which side Riven would go to, to just destroy her in 10 seconds lol.

You aren't supposed to have 6 people in 1 room. So therefore it is a cheese. I hope they implement a mechanic that forces you to have 3 people in the other room or it wipes you. It's easy to beat legit to begin with.... it's easier then cheesing it that's what's sad.

I couldn't agree more. It's not as though anybody can do it like the Atheon or Crota cheese. You need to get the stack all the buffs properly and be at a high enough level to actually pull it off. It's annoying hearing people complain about it when they can simply choose to run it the long way if they like. A lot of the people complaining are doing so because they are not a high enough level yet and instead of making their own group try to join on a group specifically asking for a high light level.