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12/2/2017 1:44:55 AM
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They think they have the authority to classify things as "hate speech" which in their mind deserves to be censored, so no, the left absolutely does not believe in free speech.
English
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yea the bill c16 pr8 much ruined the universities diversity of thought.
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Proof?
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Go to Berkeley when a right wing guest is speaking
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That isn't proof.
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[quote]That isn't proof.[/quote] Actually that is proof. They do everything they can to inhibit the communication of opposing thought, and demonize it in order to justify themselves.
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Giving me a hypothetical situation is not proof in the slightest, I have no doubt people would protest a talker they perceive as fascistic, but that's just it - freedom of speech goes both ways, they are allowed to. Besides a minority isn't representative of an entire viewpoint in the slightest.
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[quote]Giving me a hypothetical situation is not proof in the slightest, I have no doubt people would protest a talker they perceive as fascistic, but that's just it - freedom of speech goes both ways, they are allowed to. Besides a minority isn't representative of an entire viewpoint in the slightest.[/quote] It’s not hypothetical at all. Little to none of the speakers they opposed were fascist in the least. But the difference between the Left and the Right is that the Left seeks to exploit their freedoms without any, or as little as possible, responsibility or respect towards others. The Right generally exercises their freedoms with the check of responsibility, self-control, and respect to keep it getting out of hand. The majority of the Left is anti-free speech as long as it’s against their own narratives and beliefs. The minority of the Right is similar.
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That's flat out incorrect. As a leftist, and someone who knows many other leftists, your generalization is based on a vocal minority. That's like me saying all right-wingers are alt-right and hate all non-whites. The left is about freedom for [u]all[/u] people. The right and right-leaning centrists like to talk all high and mighty about freedom of speech, but only when it comes to their own views, you ignore the fact that mainstream Islamophobia and Transphobia suppresses the voices of those individuals. The left is, by definition, for free speech - your mass generalization doesn't change that fact in the slightest.
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Edited by ElementNinja: 12/3/2017 10:26:49 PM[quote]That's flat out incorrect. As a leftist, and someone who knows many other leftists, your generalization is based on a vocal minority. That's like me saying all right-wingers are alt-right and hate all non-whites. The left is about freedom for [u]all[/u] people. The right and right-leaning centrists like to talk all high and mighty about freedom of speech, but only when it comes to their own views, you ignore the fact that mainstream Islamophobia and Transphobia suppresses the voices of those individuals. The left is, by definition, for free speech - your mass generalization doesn't change that fact in the slightest.[/quote] Clearly you are ignorant of the MSM and other MS news outlets. I never said “the entire Left” or “the entire Right.” I said a majority of the Left, you included, acts against freedom of opposing speech and ideas. You just contradicted yourself and validated my point. My “generalization” of the Left stands, thanks to you lol
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How arrogant, your generalization of the entire left is still flat out wrong. I'm against free speech am I? This is news to me, I'd like to see you back up that claim. Truth is if you honestly think "the majority" of the left are anti free speech then you've let far-right rhetoric consume you. The right to protest is a part of free speech in case you forgot, and we would be nowhere as a society without it.
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[quote]How arrogant, your generalization of the entire left is still flat out wrong. I'm against free speech am I? This is news to me, I'd like to see you back up that claim. Truth is if you honestly think "the majority" of the left are anti free speech then you've let far-right rhetoric consume you. The right to protest is a part of free speech in case you forgot, and we would be nowhere as a society without it.[/quote] The Left is indeed generally against freedom of speech as they make effort to inhibit opposing ideas and thought, no matter how civil the Right is in communicating it. You do so as well as you unsubstantially insult and condemn those who refuse to conform to the lunacy of playing along with the identity fantasies of Transgenders. I don’t follow any far/alt-right media, so again, you make an unsubstantiated accusation. When the Left protests, it usually isn’t in civil manor. The Left always makes an attempt to be disruptive, (which inhibits free speech of opposing thought) or resorts to violence or destruction of property in order to shut down conservative speakers.
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[quote]no matter how civil the Right[/quote] I'm genuinely curious as to where this ideology of the right being "rational" or "collected" comes from, they're just as capable of being uncivil as the left, and not a single leftist I know is even remotely uncivil, even the Anarchists are very rational in their arguments. Of course irrational people exist in the left, as do they exist in the right, such as that whole "ethnic replacement" lunacy. [quote]you unsubstantially insult and condemn[/quote] I don't, the only time it may get heated is during Trans related debates. I've lost people because of the bigotry they experience - they wanted to live, imagine living a complete lie, you hate everything about yourself, you finally find a way to feel even a modicum of happiness, and your family kicks you out, you can't get a job, and you get bullied at every turn. They deserved better, and the ones still here do too. [quote]fantasies of Transgenders[/quote] So where do people draw the line eh? You do realize that Trans people go through a full year of heavy psychological evaluation before they're even [i]considered[/i] right? This is the same attitude people had against gay people back in the 70's. Truth is, Gender Dysphoria is a mental condition yes, but not an [i]illness[/i]. It's the same way Autism and Clinical Depression are categorized, they are simply the way their brains are structured, many studies suggest it happens in the womb. [quote]I don’t follow any far/alt-right media, so again, you make an unsubstantiated accusation.[/quote] Not unlike your assumption that I'm against free speech. [quote] violence or destruction of property in order to shut down conservative speakers.[/quote] The only one I know of is Milo, he's a misogynist, and is seemingly against anything that isn't in his interests. Not saying it's justified, but I know why [i]some[/i] leftists may be upset at him getting a megaphone directed at impressionable youths.
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[quote][quote]no matter how civil the Right[/quote] I'm genuinely curious as to where this ideology of the right being "rational" or "collected" comes from, they're just as capable of being uncivil as the left, and not a single leftist I know is even remotely uncivil, even the Anarchists are very rational in their arguments. Of course irrational people exist in the left, as do they exist in the right, such as that whole "ethnic replacement" lunacy. [quote]you unsubstantially insult and condemn[/quote] I don't, the only time it may get heated is during Trans related debates. I've lost people because of the bigotry they experience - they wanted to live, imagine living a complete lie, you hate everything about yourself, you finally find a way to feel even a modicum of happiness, and your family kicks you out, you can't get a job, and you get bullied at every turn. They deserved better, and the ones still here do too. [quote]fantasies of Transgenders[/quote] So where do people draw the line eh? You do realize that Trans people go through a full year of heavy psychological evaluation before they're even [i]considered[/i] right? This is the same attitude people had against gay people back in the 70's. Truth is, Gender Dysphoria is a mental condition yes, but not an [i]illness[/i]. It's the same way Autism and Clinical Depression are categorized, they are simply the way their brains are structured, many studies suggest it happens in the womb. [quote]I don’t follow any far/alt-right media, so again, you make an unsubstantiated accusation.[/quote] Not unlike your assumption that I'm against free speech. [quote] violence or destruction of property in order to shut down conservative speakers.[/quote] The only one I know of is Milo, he's a misogynist, and is seemingly against anything that isn't in his interests. Not saying it's justified, but I know why [i]some[/i] leftists may be upset at him getting a megaphone directed at impressionable youths.[/quote] 1) EVERYONE is capable of being as uncivil as the Left, but [u]generally[/u], conservatives tend to be civil and rational because morality and personal responsibility are attributes that are fought for on the Right. If you don’t know a single uncivil Leftist then you probably have your head in the sand and your fingers in your ears. Anarchy is, in itself, uncivil and irrational. 2) you most certainly DO unsubstantially insult and condemn. If you can’t keep a cool head, then you need to question yourself if you’re being rational. Feelings isn’t logic. Living out a fantasy is still living out a lie. You’re trading a perceived “lie” for a willing lie. Yes they deserved to be treated and respected as fellow human beings, but to demand that others play along with a fantasy is unwarranted. This isn’t the same as homosexuality. Unless you have a genetic defect, if your DNA clearly says XX or XY, you’re clearly female or male respectively. It’s a mental illness because it’s a deep denial of reality. Autism is genetic. Perhaps Depression is, but it’s inconclusive. Studies that suggest don’t equate definitive conclusions. Depression is also a mental illness. 3) You are against free speech if you’re for imposing others to play along with a fantasy.
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[quote]1) EVERYONE is capable of being as uncivil as the Left, but generally, conservatives tend to be civil and rational because morality and personal responsibility are attributes that are fought for on the Right.[/quote] I'm yet to see a single leftist disregard personal responsibility, they only wish to help those who can't help themselves, and get them on their feet so they can contribute to society. [quote]If you don’t know a single uncivil Leftist then you probably have your head in the sand and your fingers in your ears. Anarchy is, in itself, uncivil and irrational.[/quote] Of course I've met uncivil leftists, I just don't stay around them. Anarchism's only uniting rule is no unnecessary authority, but a world where [u]everyone[/u] is free, and that requires order, another fundamental part of Anarchism, that's why the "A" is inside the "O", in recent media the movement has been regarded as synonymous with chaos, not the case. [quote]you most certainly DO unsubstantially insult and condemn. If you can’t keep a cool head, then you need to question yourself if you’re being rational. Feelings isn’t logic.[/quote] They're dead, those people, for what? Living their life their way? You know you're a male, you just know, but imagine not knowing, feeling since childhood that you were in the wrong body, a thought of "Why are they calling me a girl? I'm a boy." or vice versa, then they grow, in that misery and confusion a glimmer of hope unveils itself, that being the concept of transitioning to the opposite gender, you jump at the chance, it's finally an answer to decades of self hatred and fear -- then your family throws you out, your friends don't accept you, you can't get a job and you realize the cost of being yourself is too much to bare, what, go back to being miserable? Maybe your family won't hate you... Maybe they will learn to love you in time. It's a battle with yourself, and one many people don't win. [quote]Feelings isn’t logic. Living out a fantasy is still living out a lie. You’re trading a perceived “lie” for a willing lie.[/quote] A fantasy? People's lives aren't a fantasy, this struggle is very real for them, calling it a "lie" is disregarding facts, regardless, feelings are what make us human, and the concept of empathy is becoming less common, your fellow humans aren't black and white, we all have our own problems our own fears and depths. You not understanding one in particular doesn't invalidate it, [b]that[/b] is illogical. [quote]Yes they deserved to be treated and respected as fellow human beings, but to demand that others play along with a fantasy is unwarranted.[/quote] It's selfish to refuse to respect someones wishes based on your assumption that it isn't "normal". Those people I knew? Sent into a depression because being "misgendered" intentionally and called "mentally ill" was a daily occurrence, that may seem trivial to you, but these people put everything into their identity, give up a lot, for a modicum of happiness. [quote]This isn’t the same as homosexuality. Unless you have a genetic defect, if your DNA clearly says XX or XY, you’re clearly female or male respectively.[/quote] So far I've mostly mentioned the psychological effect of being Trans, now I'll attempt to explain it as it is generally seen: "I know for damn sure that biology is a big part of it, and it is not simply what sex gets put on your birth certificate — an assignment that is predominantly based on whether or not one has a penis. There are numerous biological conditions, such as androgen insensitivity syndrome, 5-alpha reductase deficiency or Rokitansky syndrome, in which individuals with either XY and XX chromosomes are born without a normal vagina or uterus but also without a penis, and are nearly always assigned to be “a girl.” It has to do with the biology of your brain. What most people don’t know is that our brain is both literally and figuratively our biggest sex organ. The parts of our brain that control behaviors that have to do with sex and things that differ by sex are exquisitely sensitive to hormones and chemicals that can mimic hormones. They also express genes in patterns that differ between males and females." Excerpt from a Trans Brain study I have linked before: "“Trans people have brains that are different from males and females, a unique kind of brain,” Guillamon says. “It is simplistic to say that a female-to-male transgender person is a female trapped in a male body. It's not because they have a male brain but a transsexual brain.” Of course, behavior and experience shape brain anatomy, so it is impossible to say if these subtle differences are inborn. Other investigators have looked at sex differences through brain functioning. In a study published in 2014, psychologist Sarah M. Burke of VU University Medical Center in Amsterdam and biologist Julie Bakker of the Netherlands Institute for Neuroscience used functional MRI to examine how 39 prepubertal and 41 adolescent boys and girls with gender dysphoria responded to androstadienone, an odorous steroid with pheromonelike properties that is known to cause a different response in the hypothalamus of men versus women. They found that the adolescent boys and girls with gender dysphoria responded much like peers of their experienced gender. The results were less clear with the prepubertal children" [quote]Autism is genetic. Perhaps Depression is, but it’s inconclusive. Studies that suggest don’t equate definitive conclusions[/quote] As someone with a family history of severe clinical depression, and I do too, my moneys on genetic. [quote]3) You are against free speech if you’re for imposing others to play along with a fantasy.[/quote] A commonly echoed talking point, calling people with a different perception of identity "mentally ill" and thus disregarding them is quite fascistic, and they don't like free speech.
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[quote][quote]1) EVERYONE is capable of being as uncivil as the Left, but generally, conservatives tend to be civil and rational because morality and personal responsibility are attributes that are fought for on the Right.[/quote] I'm yet to see a single leftist disregard personal responsibility, they only wish to help those who can't help themselves, and get them on their feet so they can contribute to society. [quote]If you don’t know a single uncivil Leftist then you probably have your head in the sand and your fingers in your ears. Anarchy is, in itself, uncivil and irrational.[/quote] Of course I've met uncivil leftists, I just don't stay around them. Anarchism's only uniting rule is no unnecessary authority, but a world where [u]everyone[/u] is free, and that requires order, another fundamental part of Anarchism, that's why the "A" is inside the "O", in recent media the movement has been regarded as synonymous with chaos, not the case. [quote]you most certainly DO unsubstantially insult and condemn. If you can’t keep a cool head, then you need to question yourself if you’re being rational. Feelings isn’t logic.[/quote] They're dead, those people, for what? Living their life their way? You know you're a male, you just know, but imagine not knowing, feeling since childhood that you were in the wrong body, a thought of "Why are they calling me a girl? I'm a boy." or vice versa, then they grow, in that misery and confusion a glimmer of hope unveils itself, that being the concept of transitioning to the opposite gender, you jump at the chance, it's finally an answer to decades of self hatred and fear -- then your family throws you out, your friends don't accept you, you can't get a job and you realize the cost of being yourself is too much to bare, what, go back to being miserable? Maybe your family won't hate you... Maybe they will learn to love you in time. It's a battle with yourself, and one many people don't win. [quote]Feelings isn’t logic. Living out a fantasy is still living out a lie. You’re trading a perceived “lie” for a willing lie.[/quote] A fantasy? People's lives aren't a fantasy, this struggle is very real for them, calling it a "lie" is disregarding facts, regardless, feelings are what make us human, and the concept of empathy is becoming less common, your fellow humans aren't black and white, we all have our own problems our own fears and depths. You not understanding one in particular doesn't invalidate it, [b]that[/b] is illogical. [quote]Yes they deserved to be treated and respected as fellow human beings, but to demand that others play along with a fantasy is unwarranted.[/quote] It's selfish to refuse to respect someones wishes based on your assumption that it isn't "normal". Those people I knew? Sent into a depression because being "misgendered" intentionally and called "mentally ill" was a daily occurrence, that may seem trivial to you, but these people put everything into their identity, give up a lot, for a modicum of happiness. [quote]This isn’t the same as homosexuality. Unless you have a genetic defect, if your DNA clearly says XX or XY, you’re clearly female or male respectively.[/quote] So far I've mostly mentioned the psychological effect of being Trans, now I'll attempt to explain it as it is generally seen: "I know for damn sure that biology is a big part of it, and it is not simply what sex gets put on your birth certificate — an assignment that is predominantly based on whether or not one has a penis. There are numerous biological conditions, such as androgen insensitivity syndrome, 5-alpha reductase deficiency or Rokitansky syndrome, in which individuals with either XY and XX chromosomes are born without a normal vagina or uterus but also without a penis, and are nearly always assigned to be “a girl.” It has to do with the biology of your brain. What most people don’t know is that our brain is both literally and figuratively our biggest sex organ. The parts of our brain that control behaviors that have to do with sex and things that differ by sex are exquisitely sensitive to hormones and chemicals that can mimic hormones. They also express genes in patterns that differ between males and females." Excerpt from a Trans Brain study I have linked before: "“Trans people have brains that are different from males and females, a unique kind of brain,” Guillamon says. “It is simplistic to say that a female-to-male transgender person is a female trapped in a male body. It's not because they have a male brain but a transsexual brain.” Of course, behavior and experience shape brain anatomy, so it is impossible to say if these subtle differences are inborn. Other investigators have looked at sex differences through brain functioning. In a study published in 2014, psychologist Sarah M. Burke of VU University Medical Center in Amsterdam and biologist Julie Bakker of the Netherlands Institute for Neuroscience used functional MRI to examine how 39 prepubertal and 41 adolescent boys and girls with gender dysphoria responded to androstadienone, an odorous steroid with pheromonelike properties that is known to cause a different response in the hypothalamus of men versus women. They found that the adolescent boys and girls with gender dysphoria responded much like peers of their experienced gender. The results were less clear with the prepubertal children" [quote]Autism is genetic. Perhaps Depression is, but it’s inconclusive. Studies that suggest don’t equate definitive conclusions[/quote] As someone with a family history of severe clinical depression, and I do too, my moneys on genetic. [quote]3) You are against free speech if you’re for imposing others to play along with a fantasy.[/quote] A commonly echoed talking point, calling people with a different perception of identity "mentally ill" and thus disregarding them is quite fascistic, and they don't like free speech.[/quote] 1) [quote] I'm yet to see a single leftist disregard personal responsibility, they only wish to help those who can't help themselves, and get them on their feet so they can contribute to society.[/quote] Yet, the Left is all about abortion, which is murder of an unborn child, usually because the parents don’t want to take on the responsibility of parenthood. Babies, from conception, can’t help themselves. You just contradicted yourself. Congrats. Take your L. 2) “unnecessary authority” is subjective. What corruptible and imperfect human being is incorruptible and perfect to determine what is “unnecessary”? 3) my DNA says XY. It’s THAT clear. For those who questioned if they’re in the correct body or not: who are they to say that they weren’t? What you’ve described are people who would prefer a fantasy over reality so strongly that they’re imposing it on others to play along. No I’m not those families, and I believe people should be treated as people, but you can’t impose a fantastical belief upon others, especially when they have valid reasoning on why they refuse to conform. 4) people’s lives aren’t a fantasy. But claims with no substantial evidence are fantastical. Their struggle is between accepting reality or accepting their own perceived wishful fantasy. There are no facts to support it. Feelings are part of the human experience, but feelings are not facts or reason. You’re favoring feelings over facts. By the way, you are sympathizing with those who are like you, and you’ve failed to demonstrate that you can empathize with those who disagree with you. 5) It’s totalitarian of you to impose upon others that they abide by your wishes. That’s coercion. They went into depression because they didn’t get their way. In other words, their depression was a state of mourning due to external circumstances. The other type of depression is a chemical imbalance that is impartial to whether or not you experience favorable or unfavorable circumstances. They put too much emphasis on their sexual identity instead of, at the very least, the content of their character. They focused too much on whether or not others conformed to their thinking or beliefs. 6) the conditions you explained are rare exceptions. Outliers. There are people who do not suffer what you describe in the least, but still claim the trans card because they feel like it. Just like those who feel that they are black or Filipino or etc but actually aren’t in the slightest. The flaw in your study is that they didn’t test the chemical on non-trans people. It’s a self fulfilling conclusion. 7) it hasn’t been confirmed that it is genetic or not. 8) false. They are, in fact, quite mentally ill. To impose upon others, by law, what to say or not to say, is, in fact, against freedom of speech.
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[quote]Yet, the Left is all about abortion, which is murder of an unborn child, usually because the parents don’t want to take on the responsibility of parenthood. Babies, from conception, can’t help themselves. You just contradicted yourself. Congrats. Take your L.[/quote] An embryo isn't alive, it's a bag of cells, it can't be murdered, by that logic is the removal of a tumor murder too? There is a reason abortion is illegal after a certain point. [quote]“unnecessary authority” is subjective. What corruptible and imperfect human being is incorruptible and perfect to determine what is “unnecessary”?[/quote] In this context, no it isn't. Necessary authority is things like a parent to their child, if they were to pull their child out from the road, that would be justified as it's deemed their responsibility. [quote]my DNA says XY. It’s THAT clear.[/quote] This point is redundant, no one claimed to defy biology and, again the definition of gender is: "the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones)." Regardless, playing devil's advocate here, what of Chromosomal abnormalities such as "XX male syndrome"? By that logic they're female, even though they aren't, a common retort to that is "Oh but that isn't common" -- well neither is being Trans, they're a mass minority. [quote] For those who questioned if they’re in the correct body or not: who are they to say that they weren’t?[/quote] "Who are they"? Themselves..? I'm pretty damn sure someone else is more qualified to explain their feelings about themselves than you. [quote]What you’ve described are people who would prefer a fantasy over reality so strongly that they’re imposing it on others to play along.[/quote] How disrespectful, people struggle their whole damn lives to be themselves, killing themselves because they couldn't find peace. "Fantasy" is flat-out incorrect, Gender Dysphoria [i][u]isn't[/u][/i] a mental illness, this isn't hard to grasp. Just because you lack understanding doesn't mean it isn't real. [quote]No I’m not those families, and I believe people should be treated as people, but you can’t impose a fantastical belief upon others, especially when they have valid reasoning on why they refuse to conform.[/quote] They don't force anything, they just want you to refer to them as a particular set of pronouns. Last time I checked wanting to be referred to as another name/pronoun wasn't forcing anything. What about people who change their names? Or have a nickname? Is it a "fantasy" because it wasn't their birth name? [quote]people’s lives aren’t a fantasy. But claims with no substantial evidence are fantastical. Their struggle is between accepting reality or accepting their own perceived wishful fantasy.[/quote] [quote]no substantial evidence[/quote] That's a problem common with psychology, even with proof people will deny it because they can't [b]see[/b] it. Which is incredibly backward, people said the same about other psychological states in the past. You conservatives love repeating history, and never learning. [quote]Their struggle is between accepting reality or accepting their own perceived wishful fantasy[/quote] You're the one living in a fantasy. Denying facts because you fail to understand, I used to say the exact same thing, then I went out and talked to Trans people, studied their psychology -- and concluded that their concerns are quite real, ignore facts if you like. [quote]Feelings are part of the human experience, but feelings are not facts or reason. You’re favoring feelings over facts.[/quote] No actually, I favor facts. Which is precisely why I'm in defense of Trans people. Your constant reference to "reason" would imply that you think Trans people are illogical. Quite a common believe of people uneducated in the human brain. No offence. [quote]By the way, you are sympathizing with those who are like you, and you’ve failed to demonstrate that you can empathize with those who disagree with you.[/quote] I understand your point, ignorance, fear, all very simple. Unfortunately you can't "disagree" with facts. [quote]It’s totalitarian of you to impose upon others that they abide by your wishes. That’s coercion.[/quote] Refer to my point regarding the pronouns. No one is asking you to transition, and therefor what are we "coercing" you to do? [quote]hey went into depression because they didn’t get their way. In other words, their depression was a state of mourning due to external circumstances.[/quote] What a gross oversimplification of peoples lives, they lived their lives in a lie, and the truth got them into horrific situations due to ignorance. Don't disrespect the dead like that. [quote] The other type of depression is a chemical imbalance that is impartial to whether or not you experience favorable or unfavorable circumstances.[/quote] Indeed that is the definition of clinical depression, well done. You fail to acknowledge the fact depression is a side effect of many trauma-related conditions, such as PTSD, but I guess those soldiers just "didn't get their way". That's how illogical your statement is to anyone educated in this subject. [quote]They put too much emphasis on their sexual identity instead of, at the very least, the content of their character.[/quote] Most Trans people I've met are incredibly kind and understanding, being mistreated tends to humble you. [quote] They focused too much on whether or not others conformed to their thinking or beliefs.[/quote] No, as long as you respect them as who they are, they'll respect you as who you are. Simple. [quote]the conditions you explained are rare exceptions. Outliers.[/quote] Irrelevant how rare it may be, physical differences are possible, yet denying psychological ones because you can't see them is illogical. [quote]There are people who do not suffer what you describe in the least, but still claim the trans card because they feel like it.[/quote] The "Trans" card? That's a new one, I bet tons of people want to be part of a minority with an astonishing murder rate, sexual assault rate and discrimination. [quote]Just like those who feel that they are black or Filipino or etc but actually aren’t in the slightest.[/quote] Not the same thing, ethnicity is physical, whereas gender identity is purely psychological. [quote]The flaw in your study is that they didn’t test the chemical on non-trans people. It’s a self fulfilling conclusion.[/quote] Incorrect, the chemical was known, with [i]known[/i] effects on particular genders. [quote]false. They are, in fact, quite mentally ill. To impose upon others, by law, what to say or not to say, is, in fact, against freedom of speech.[/quote] Basic respect for identity isn't a violation of free speech.
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1) YOU’RE a bag of cells, as is the rest of organic life. And organic life is living. So, you’re wrong again, as usual. Humans are alive at conception. It’s pretty sad that you can’t differentiate between a tumor and a human being. But, then again, I can’t expect much from you, considering how you disregard basic biology in order to justify your fantasy. 2) you’re still describing a subjective position. 3) the root of “gender” is “gene”. That’s etymology. It trumps subjective definition every time. Gender has referred to the attributes of the sexes of male and females ice the word’s conception. In language, it’s the granting of anthropomorphic gender to inanimate objects. What you’ve mixed up is gender with “gender rolls”. Learn to be precise with your speech. It may just disentangle your confusion yet. 4) Sorry but feelings don’t define you. They’re entirely subjective and fickle. To define yourself by how you feel at the moment is sure to pave the way towards mental instability. 5) It’s not disrespectful at all. Deal with it. I’m speaking objectively. Hence “facts don’t care about your feelings.” Truth is independent to how you feel in regards to a matter. They couldn’t find peace because their expectation of peace involves everyone else catering to their wishes. Sorry bub, that’s not how the world works. GD [b][i][u]is[/u][/i][/b] a mental illness. Apparently for you, that’s impossible to grasp. It’s good to repeat the good things of history, like reason and logic. 6) Demanding it is borderline force. It’s compelled speech. If you don’t get your way, suck it up. Especially if it’s not grounded in truth or reality, it’s absurd to demand others to cater to fantasy. 7) There is no substantial proof. At all. 8) you’re the one living in fantasy. Concerns are intangible and subjective. It doesn’t objectively affect reality. If I seriously feel like I’m a dragon in a human body, wholly self convinced, that still doesn’t make me a dragon. I’m still 100% human. No matter how I wish or feel against that. 9) And someone who continues to believe “feelz b4 realz” like you do is a common symptom of those who are detached from reality. No offense. 10) See? You assume I’m coming from a position of ignorance and fear when I’m clearly the opposite. You disagree with facts on the daily lol that’s the whole foundation of your position! 11) demanding is within the realm of coercion, especially considering it’s pushed its way in to law, compelling people how to speak. 12) It’s not oversimplifying at all. It’s calling it like it is. [quote] they lived their lives in a lie, and the truth got them into horrific situations due to ignorance. [/quote] Correct. The lie being that they believed to have different identities contrary to what biology spelled out for them. The truth being that they were wrong. The ignorance being that feelings determined reality. It’s not disrespecting the dead at all. It’s called speaking objectively. 13) Technically they [b][i][u]didn’t[/u][/i][/b] get their way. That’s life’s biggest struggle: not getting your way. Sorry to burst your fragile bubble. *POP* there it goes.... 14) kind and understanding until they don’t get their way. Demanding others address you contrary to reality isn’t humble at all. Quite the opposite. 15) Addressing then according to reality IS being respectful to them. It’s respecting their personhood. Catering to their fantasy is actually what’s disrespectful to their being. 16) Fantasy and mental illness [b][i][u]is[/u][/i][/b] part of psychology. I’ll acknowledge that. And it isn’t healthy to cater to it. 17) Yes because they want to feel like a unique snowflake. 18) They’re both psychological, because they’re both grounded in mental delusion. A boy feeling like they’re a girl and then assuming as such is as illogical as a Mexican feeling like he’s Kenyan and assuming as such. 19) wrong. The test was upon trans people, not normal ones. 20) It’s not respect for identity at all. It’s coercing people to participate in a social lie.
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[quote]YOU’RE a bag of cells, as is the rest of organic life. And organic life is living.[/quote] How reductionist of you, in a theoretical sense you are indeed correct, but I have the capacity for free thought and more complex understanding, whereas an embryo isn't capable of any thought. You say that as if any time you end the self autonomy of an organism is murder, that's an inherently flawed ideology as it implies murder is possible to anything living, insects, parasites, regardless of it's ability to perceive. Anyway, this is not a debate about abortion. [quote]subjective position.[/quote] There is nothing subjective about your parents responsibility to raise you if they decide to keep you under their custody. [quote]That’s etymology.[/quote] The definition of gender has been in reference to societal and cultural identity for decades, the idea of etymology is not only their meanings, but how they have changed throughout history. The origin of the word is irrelevant considering our understanding of the human brain and science has vastly improved since then. [quote]It trumps subjective definition[/quote] No such thing as subjective definition. That's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one. [quote]Gender has referred to the attributes of the sexes of male and females ice the word’s conception.[/quote] Regardless of your stance on Trans people as a whole, you're ignoring the definition of gender. It refers to the state of being male or female, it never mentioned biology at any point. [quote] What you’ve mixed up is gender with “gender rolls”. Learn to be precise with your speech. It may just disentangle your confusion yet.[/quote] Roles* Regardless, the definition of gender is objective, gender roles are their application in said society rather than personnel identity like "gender" on it's own. [quote] Sorry but feelings don’t define you. They’re entirely subjective and fickle. To define yourself by how you feel at the moment is sure to pave the way towards mental instability.[/quote] As opposed to what? Your biology defining you? Your identity defines you, and many people identify as the other gender, or somewhere in between. [quote]It’s not disrespectful at all.[/quote] The definition of disrespect is: "lack of respect or courtesy." - which is in fact what you're doing by intentionally defying someones wishes of how [i]you[/i] treat [i]them[/i], they don't care about how you live your life, but you must respect them for who they are, if you ever want to be respected for who you are. Simple. [quote]I’m speaking objectively. Hence “facts don’t care about your feelings.” [/quote] Nothing you say is factual, as someone heavily invested in psychology and study of the brain in general, you insult the scientific method with your feelings. [quote]Truth is independent to how you feel in regards to a matter.[/quote] Exactly, so maybe you should stop spewing pseudo-scientific nonsense. [quote]They couldn’t find peace because their expectation of peace involves everyone else catering to their wishes. Sorry bub, that’s not how the world works.[/quote] "Their wishes" is simply to be referred to as who they feel they are, that doesn't require a single thing of you apart from basic respect, something you kids are lacking. [quote] GD is a mental illness.[/quote] Source? I can provide some in direct conflict with that baseless conclusion: [url=https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/]NHS[/url] [url=https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria]American Psychiatric Association[/url] Even if it were a "mental illness", your method of dealing with it shows your severe lack of education in the subject. [quote]like reason and logic[/quote] The backwards people always love spouting this, yet they provide neither, curious. [quote]Demanding it is borderline force[/quote] By this logic treating colored individuals as people is force. [quote]It’s compelled speech.[/quote] Nope, you don't have to do it, but spewing this unscientific nonsense will get someone in opposition, you need to be taught. [quote]demand others to cater to fantasy.[/quote] That's more like what you're suggesting, ignoring facts because they don't sound right to you. How ignorant. [quote]There is no substantial proof. At all.[/quote] Quite a claim, you're wrong once again, to no ones surprise. I have no idea what you claim is false, but. Try this in regards to [url=https://medium.com/@juliaserano/debunking-trans-women-are-not-women-arguments-85fd5ab0e19c]"Trans women aren't women"[/url]. [quote]you’re the one living in fantasy. Concerns are intangible and subjective.[/quote] You're yet to provide a shred of proof to back this claim up, to busy preaching "muh feels". [quote]It doesn’t objectively affect reality. If I seriously feel like I’m a dragon in a human body.[/quote] How does this relate to gender? It doesn't. This is another non-argument those echo chambers like to play with Ben Shapiro (I used to like him until I actually started studying science). [quote]I’m still 100% human. No matter how I wish or feel against that.[/quote] Of course, male and female are both human, no one is trying to claim to be non-human. [quote]And someone who continues to believe “feelz b4 realz” like you do is a common symptom of those who are detached from reality. No offense.[/quote] I'm not offended by your insults, I'm offended by your lack of will to learn, which proves to me just how little stock you put in the scientific method. You are the one putting feelings before reality. [quote]See? You assume I’m coming from a position of ignorance and fear when I’m clearly the opposite.[/quote] Oh? Are you using facts? I'm yet to see any. [quote]You disagree with facts on the daily lol that’s the whole foundation of your position![/quote] I've provided numerous links to support my claim, it's unlikely you've read any if that's your stance. [quote]demanding is within the realm of coercion, especially considering it’s pushed its way in to law, compelling people how to speak.[/quote] What? How does referring to someone as a "him" or a "her" at all infringe on the law or any form of free speech? [quote]It’s not oversimplifying at all. It’s calling it like it is.[/quote] Life isn't as simple as you think, a sign of ignorance and lacking intelligence is the idea that you can't learn more. Dunning Kruger Effect. [quote]Correct. The lie being that they believed to have different identities contrary to what biology spelled out for them. The truth being that they were wrong. The ignorance being that feelings determined reality.[/quote] Biology doesn't "spell" anything out, it gets things wrong, that's reality. It isn't perfect, as is evident by the existence of intersex people, biological and psychological abnormalities and the like. [quote]It’s not disrespecting the dead at all. It’s called speaking objectively.[/quote] I've covered how moronic this statement is numerous times. [quote]Technically they didn’t get their way. That’s life’s biggest struggle: not getting your way.[/quote] When "your way" is basic respect as who you are, they are owed that, as everyone else gets it. They weren't given it because of ignorant and uneducated people such as yourself. [quote]Sorry to burst your fragile bubble. *POP* there it goes....[/quote] You're the one is a bubble, shame you seem too scared to go anywhere that might threaten it's structural integrity. So you must stay in an echo chamber, it's sad really. [quote] kind and understanding until they don’t get their way. Demanding others address you contrary to reality isn’t humble at all. Quite the opposite.[/quote] They didn't demand anything, they wanted basic respect, they aren't the ones demanding this. Their allies are. [quote]Addressing then according to reality IS being respectful to them.[/quote] That's some serious mental gymnastics. So me referring to you as a deluded and pseudo-intellectual man-child is being respectful? Alright. [quote]It’s respecting their personhood. Catering to their fantasy is actually what’s disrespectful to their being.[/quote] If it were a fantasy, you'd have a point. It isn't though. [quote]Fantasy and mental illness is part of psychology. I’ll acknowledge that. And it isn’t healthy to cater to it.[/quote] It isn't either of those things. [quote]Yes because they want to feel like a unique snowflake.[/quote] "Snowflake" - Ah I knew you were with that group, I'm somewhat disappointed, a figured you were thinking on your own accord, but that explains your unwillingness to educated yourself and fake respect for science, you only care when it caters to you. This is not that situation. [quote] They’re both psychological, because they’re both grounded in mental delusion.[/quote] You don't have the medical authority to deem something a "delusion", besides they aren't at all the same, your ethnicity isn't a social construct. [quote]A boy feeling like they’re a girl and then assuming as such is as illogical as a Mexican feeling like he’s Kenyan and assuming as such.[/quote] Nope. At this point I'm just shocked at your lack of research on the subject, did you ever get taught to not argue a point you know nothing of? [quote]wrong. The test was upon trans people, not normal ones.[/quote] Evidently you didn't read it, the effects were known and recorded from previous uses, it showed brain activity reminiscent of their preferred gender; but because it disagrees with you "it's somehow false!", how unscientific.
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If that isn't proof I don't know what is.
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I don't know, an actual example of the left openly condemning free speech and not just some individual hypothetical maybe?
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I already know you're delusional what's the point of trying to convince you? I'll expose you to genuine information that will oppose your entire world view and by the next day you'll completely forget about it
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"I have proof but I won't show you". Yeah, okay.
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[quote]"I have proof but I won't show you". Yeah, okay.[/quote] Actually, you have the MO of ignoring the proof presented by others, especially when it undermines your beliefs.
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Can confirm this statement as true. It isn't just nix though almost all of the more liberal bnet users are guilty of this. For that reason, I have stopped wasting my breath on them.
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[quote]Can confirm this statement as true. It isn't just nix though almost all of the more liberal bnet users are guilty of this. For that reason, I have stopped wasting my breath on them.[/quote] You make a very wise decision. And one that demonstrates great restraint lol
