JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
6/22/2017 12:13:01 AM
178

Destiny 2's weapon system: Reality vs Perception

So ever since the DRE reveal, there has been a lot of talk about the new weapon system. There have been many posts claiming it will limit play and many more claiming that all these changes are the result of PvP. I understand players are concerned about such a big change, particularly without the context of having had a chance to actually try it out yet in the confines of Destiny 2. With all that said, I have played it and of everything I experienced playing the D2 PvE, the new weapon system was hands down my favorite change to the game and I'm not alone. Mercules904 (who's probably the preeminent weapon tester in the game) said when asked what it's like going back to D1 after playing D2 [quote]It's painful to me, actually. I never realized how much nicer it is not having special weapons all the time. D1 feels broken after D2[/quote] Now I know there was good reason within the D1 PvP experience to make these changes in D2. Weapon balancing was a shit-show as Bungie were never able to figure out a way to evenly balance out a system in which 2 of our 3 weapon slots were capable of OHKs. Ironically what is generally perceived as the best era in D1 PvP was the House of Wolves when DoTs mattered and served as a natural counter and suppressor to OHK weapons. We all witnesses the spiral out of control of specials and heavy after Dots were destroyed to where ammo nerfs were used as last ditch stopgaps. We all know the frustration amongst the community with Fusion Grenades. D2 PvP will certainly benefit from all OHK capable weapons being classed together and lead to a hopefully much easier system to balance (which by default will lead to a more stable game overall), but to paint that as the only reason for making the change is simply false. These changes were made with as much or more thought to PvE than they were PvP and again, having played it, I found the system to not only offer more interesting choices of loadouts, but just a much more fun and diverse play experience. One of the quotes about D2 I have issue with is [quote]Special and Heavy are fun. Those are going away at a rate of 50%[/quote] Well here is the hard truth behind that reality. They aren't being used much in PvE anyway so 50% of a fraction of kills changes what? I wanted to get an idea of how Primary, Special and Heavy weapons are actually used by players in Destiny 1 PvE so I did some research and found some interesting numbers. I reached out to Jay at Destinytracker to try to see if there's a way to get aggregate numbers across time periods, but for now I pulled the kill percentages by weapon class in each PvE activity on the most recent day those stats were available 6/3/2017 Here's are the kill percentages by activity for overall weapon class as well as detailed by weapon subclasses for that day. [url=http://i.imgur.com/UVrxpg9.jpg]Story overview[/url] [url=http://i.imgur.com/LJVBlp6.jpg]Story detail[/url] [url=http://i.imgur.com/oHbW3Zr.jpg]Strike overview[/url] [url=http://i.imgur.com/hMmKvLe.jpg]Strike detail[/url] [url=http://i.imgur.com/vinDkhZ.jpg]Raid overview[/url] [url=http://i.imgur.com/xNamf7B.jpg]Raid detail[/url] [url=http://i.imgur.com/xNamf7B.jpg]Patrol overview[/url] [url=http://i.imgur.com/y8H0Sja.jpg]Patrol detail[/url] Now these numbers are from a single day, but spread over weeks and months, the numbers are pretty consistent and what becomes clear is that by making this change to the weapon system, Bungie is allowing us greater use of the weapons we use most. (It's also pretty clear why MGs are going away as well) The reality of Destiny PvE is that Primary weapons are the lion's share of our kills and situations that dictate special and heavy weapons generally can be approached using either. The other reality (and the numbers back it up) is that we spend the majority of PvE sitting on special and heavy ammo until those specific situations arise. Destiny 2 is not Destiny 1. Yes it's still Destiny, but everything has evolved including mission and strike structure. Granted we only played an abridged first mission and one strike, but it's enough to see that it's its own game. The fights are more dynamic. There are more enemies on screen to contend with and we have more options at our disposal to fight those enemies with. In Destiny 1, I sit on my special and heavy ammo and use each vary sparingly. In D2 I was constantly swapping between my Pulse Rifle and Hand Cannon during the strike and whichever power weapon I had, I found I used more frequently because there were always bricks dropping and with just the one power slot vs D1's two, it actually encouraged using it more and not holding it for specific situations. Again this is my experience with D2 and yours might be completely different, but until you've had the opportunity to unload an Auto Rifle and instead of reloading, swapping to an SMG to keep burning through enemies, it's hard to look at the changes and really understand or appreciate how much they actually open up play and make encounters more diverse. The last thing I will add is that again, to all this talk that Destiny 2 is all about PvP and PvE is just an afterthought being dictated by PvP balancing... We haven't scratched the surface of what PvE will offer. We've seen half a story mission and a strike. We haven't seen the larger worlds yet, the Patrol missions, the Lost Sectors, the Flash Points, the updated public events, D2s take on PvE arenas, Quests and Bounties. We don't even know the progression systems or economy. So I understand speculation and I understand concern, but I do not accept that D2 is primarily a PvP experience and I don't agree it should keep D1's weapon system. D1 is an incredibly fun game but also one pretty broken in many ways and it manages to succeed in spite of it's faults. What I experienced with D2 was better across the board and I can't wait for everyone to get the opportunity to judge it for themselves.
English
#Destiny #DTC

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

View Entire Topic
  • Edited by H_TOWN_BALLA_80: 6/23/2017 3:15:40 PM
    In response to: [quote]With all that said, I have played it and of everything I experienced playing the D2 PvE, the new weapon system was hands down my favorite change to the game and I'm not alone. Mercules904 (who's probably the preeminent weapon tester in the game) said when asked what it's like going back to D1 after playing D2 "It's painful to me, actually. I never realized how much nicer it is not having special weapons all the time. D1 feels broken after D2"[/quote] I don't know who Mercules904 is, is he the guy that I see videos for sometimes testing weapons in PvP? If so would that indicate that his opinion is in fact biased towards PvP? That's the conclusion I have to draw as of this moment based on the above quoted information. How anyone could possibly say that D1 feels "broken" because of having special weapons and how "nice it is" to not have them SCREAMS PvP bias. Most any shooter I have ever had has snipers, shotguns, rockets and MG's and guess what? They're NOT all grouped together.. It's quite common for shotguns and snipers to be considered "special"/secondary weapons, not 3rd tier heavy's. Also, to those floundering about, trying to make the horribly bad argument that this game is heading towards Halo style game play and that it's a good thing and people who don't like it should play something else as this game may not be for them. News flash - this game was NOT designed to be a Halo clone. Maybe instead of crying to get this game to be like Halo, YOU should have gone somewhere else. No, instead this game had to be shat on until it became boring old Halo again. GG. I know you have played the game, so please help me understand why this change is so much better. I've seen the "now I can have a weapon for each engagement" tripe but that doesn't make sense. I ALREADY had options for each engagement. Primary scout. Someone coming in close, switch to shotgun (no I don't need to switch to HC or AR, I have a shotty thanks). Need to hit long distance, pull out the old sniper and I can have my rockets or MG for crowd control. Yeah no, I don't need 2 primary's which by the way is all that is. There is nothing nuanced or crazy cool that I just don't get as a knuckle dragging pleb here. It's a primary. IN 2 SLOTS. That's it. period/end/stop What am I missing? How am I not understanding the magic that apparently is coming my way from my benevolent overlords at Bungie who dictate my play. I know I sound sarcastic but I'm being serious, at no point has anyone convinced me of this magic moment that's apparently heading down the pipe in September. Last thing real quick since I mentioned MG's. I'm hard pressed to think of a shooter or many shooters who just don't have a form of MG as a heavy weapon. Now Destiny is REMOVING them from existence lol. How can that even be defended? Does no one else see the crazyness and bullshit here that I am seeing? Are they going to at least give us some back story on how MG's just magically no longer exist haha? Sometimes I hate having common sense because it pisses me off too much when I see bullshit like what is happening with this game right now. Are we going to get a grimoire card called "Hurt Pee-Pee's" that explains the vanguard had to do away with MG's due to PvP kids crying? So much of this game is just turning into a joke at this point. How hard was it to just go into your menu and switch weapons? I don't want and never needed 2 primary's. I also heard you mention something called "Freedom Builds". Not making fun of you as I know you didn't coin that term, sounds like Bungie did. I just want to know if I'll get patriotic country songs and a side of "Freedom Fries" when I make my "Freedom Build"............ (PS I'm not attacking you Sols, I'm frustrated by the arguments I see that make no sense IMO and I'm seriously asking just how I'm apparently not seeing the magical unicorn that some people apparently are when it comes to PvE and the weapon slot system in D2)

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    9 Replies
    You are not allowed to view this content.
    ;
    preload icon
    preload icon
    preload icon