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Edited by ArsenalRL: 7/13/2015 6:43:18 AM
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The Gorgon Paradigm

Let me start by saying this is a long winded post. If you don't care about lore or new creative ideas, just post your trash talking and save yourself the time of reading the entire thing. Bash all you want, you won't be able to b8 me, m8. WHEN WILL BUNGIE STEP IN HERE? IMPORTANT EDITS (SEE #6, 7) [b]The Gorgons[/b] Many of us know the Gorgons very well. We have all been through sneaking past them in the Vault, seeing how many we can kill, and trying to figure out new ways to approach these creatures. This post is my result of research and understanding of the Vault; this being a subtext of that research. The Vault fascinates me, as well as Destiny lore. I do a lot of bashing in these forums but there are sides to the game I thoroughly enjoy. [b]Strategy Alpha[/b] This is the basic strategy. Run past them, sneak past them, go camo and basically ignore their existence. The most common form of completing this checkpoint, and the easiest. [b]Strategy Beta[/b] Shoot as many as you can. This tends to not work. The Gorgons spawn fairly quickly and killing more than 3 gets pretty difficult. [b]Strategy Omega[/b] This is the strategy yet to be defined. This is my strategy. This is your strategy if it works. [i]Basis of Strategy Omega[/i] I want to define this strategy with the community. It may not be possible. But one thing I have learned from the Vault and Bungie is that the Vault represents the unknown as well as the infinity theorem. Basically ESP states all things in time and space are connected. That being said, my basis for Startegy Omega starts with the Gorgon grimoire card. Some of you may have read it, but for those who haven't here it is: [spoiler] Deep in the Vault of Glass, the fabric of reality bends to the will of the Vex. Warlocks speak in tones of awe of the Gorgons - creatures that seem to possess a dreaded, almost unimaginable strength: an ontological weapon. Like the Oracles and the Templar, the Gorgons reputedly possess the ability to define what is and is not real. Whatever they perceive becomes subject to erasure at their will. Until a countermeasure can be found, Guardians must avoid their gaze at all costs - or reply to any detection with immediate, overwhelming force. The Gorgons' ability must be tied to the nature of the Vault of Glass. We can take some solace in the clear fact that the Vex cannot manifest this power in the world outside. [/spoiler] [i]The Breakdown [/i] __________________________________________ Gorgons - creatures that seem to possess a dreaded, almost unimaginable strength: an ontological weapon. __________________________________________ So here we see the basic description of the Gorgons abilities. The word Gorgon derives from the ancient Greek word gorgós, which means "dreadful" (wiki). Ontology is the philosophical study of the nature of being, becoming, existence, or reality, as well as the basic categories of being and their relations (Google). So essentially we see the Gorgons in Destiny as a combined version of the Greek Gorgon and the powers of the Vex Overmind. ______________________________________ Until a countermeasure can be found, Guardians must avoid their gaze at all costs - or reply to any detection with immediate, overwhelming force. ______________________________________ This passage stood out the most for me. It obviously describes Strategy Alpha and Beta. If you cannot see that, you probably can stop reading here. Now, if you are like me, you see a hint at Strategy Omega. "Until a countermeasure can be found". You can paraphrase that legitimately and say "a countermeasure can be found". This might sound optimistic, but optimism is the foundation of success. The fact Bungie readily admits players have not found every secret the Vault contains adds to my enthusiasm. [b]The Countermeasure[/b] Let's take a step back for a moment and get on the same page. If you do not think there is a countermeasure, this article is over for you. If you remain steadfast, this is where it gets interesting. The Greek Gorgons were essentially similar to the Vex Gorgons in that they had the ability to kill by staring. The main mythos from Greece is the ever popular story of Medusa and Perseus. For those unfamiliar, Perseus was a demi-god (can we call Guardians demi-gods?? I would think so) who (in very simple terms for those educated waiting to bash me) defeated Medusa using a mirror-like shield to reflect her image. This is Strategy Omega. EDIT: To clarify, he actually used the shield to get to look at her without being turned to stone so he could get close enough to cut her head off and use that as a weapon. The main point I was trying to make was actually that he used the shield to defeat her essentially. There was a bit of unintentional mis information in the original post, my mistake. [b]Gorgon Suicide[/b] We must find a way. If Strategy Omega exists, it involves Gorgons killing themselves, or each other. This is where we must come together to generate and test ideas. It would involve reflection and intentionally setting off the Gorgon's Gaze. So far, my ideas are some kind of item, armor, or shader; maybe using the abundant water in the maze as a reflection, or maybe using some ability of some subclass or guardian. I haven't tested anything yet as I was excited to share my research with the community. Who will be our Perseus? EDITS: Tested / Debunked theories: [spoiler] -Going invisible and luring two gorgons together and then triggering both gazes while they face each other will not cause the gorgons to kill each other. -There is no specific gorgon that has a different appearance; no "medusa" gorgon. -Using all Vault gear + chatterhwhite + aiming down sights with the Vex Mythoclast will not protect you from the Gorgons. -There is no passage at the top of the back rock. -Cannot really say for sure, but in my case / scenario, the two spots mentioned by Reddit user Zikkah did not yield a chest for me. Here is the link to his post. https://m.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2mtujt/vog_new_chest_gorgons_labyrinth_including_full/ -The helm of saint 14 has no effect on gorgons. -Supressor and flashbangs will not protect you from the Gaze. [/spoiler] 1) Gorgoneion Interesting excerpt from wiki: In Ancient Greece, the Gorgoneion (Greek: Γοργόνειον) was a special apotropaic amuletshowing the Gorgon head, used most famously by the Olympian deities Athena andZeus: both are said to have worn the gorgoneion as a protective pendant.[1] It was assumed, among other godlike attributes, as a royal aegis to imply divine birth or protection, by rulers of the Hellenistic age, as shown, for instance, on the Alexander Mosaic and theGonzaga Cameo. 2)https://youtu.be/nst7XXr_dHU This video shows him cleansing a gorgon. His team dies though before we can see what happens.... By my count he survives for minimum 8 seconds which leads me to believe there is a chance using the aegis will protect you from gorgons, but his aegis was obtained via the gatekeepers,not the templar. More to come. I will test this myself. 3) http://i.imgur.com/OI5bnqB.png A really cool map showing gorgon routes, the chest locations, and a possible hidden passage I will explore today. Credit to the maker of the map, it wasn't me. 4) Recently while driving I came up with another idea. What if the way to unlock more potential loot or Easter eggs is to run BACKWARDS through the ENTIRE vault? It is 100% possible as I have done it, I just haven't done it after beating atheon (there might not be enough time?) This came about while I was thinking about the Vex. The whole idea is that nothing is linear to the Vex. Time doesn't go one way. So why should the raid? Just a thought. 5) Edited the original post to reflect (no pun intended) the true story of medusa and perseus. My original thought revolved around "what if" a gorgon could turn itself or another gorgon into stone aka kill itself or another. I hope I did not mis educate too many people. Thanks for the continued support as I learn more myself. This topic has been awesome. 6) After doing more research I came to a final conclusion. The only way anything makes sense is if there is a hidden aegis. Consider the timeline of Kabr in the Vault. His fire team made it to the gorgons and were dissolved by them. He destroyed a gorgon and made the aegis. So he made the aegis [i]after[/i] the Templar.. and there are 2 while fighting the gatekeepers (past and future) so maybe there is a second hidden AFTER the templar is dead (past and future). Maybe if you go back to the trials of kabr after killing the templar? I will test this myself. A special note: I had to remove some edits to make space for this. This included my shout out to you guys for being awesome. Don't worry, you are still awesome. 7) Ok, insane. I know exactly what happened with Kabr. I did more research and it turns out Kabr was made into the Super Good Advice. " If I speak again, I am not Kabr." "You will meet the Templar in a place that is a time before or after stars. The stars will move around you and mark you and sing to you. They will decide if you are real. I drank of them. It tasted like the sea." ".. The truth may lie in the weapon's connection to the legendary Hunter Pahanin, who witnessed the fall of Kabr and became terrified of traveling alone." Here's the deal. If you shoot the Super Good Advice at Oracles, it actually counts as misses and will return ammo back to the magazine. Coincidence? DISCLAIMER: I TAKE NO CREDIT FOR ORIGINALITY OF ANYTHING IN THIS POST. I did not attempt to steal anyone's ideas or plagiarize anything.

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  • Really interesting read.

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    • So what if KABR sacrificed himself in the darkness and created the SGA like you said. What if KABR died finding out the truth about VOG? He could have been turned into the key! So, if someone or everyone I should say killed the gorgons with super good advice and Atheon with it, it would activate something to do with the vex. If KABR knew the truth it would be "Super good advice" for us to know

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      • What about trying taking both gatekeeper relics and cleansing one gorgon with both. There's got to be a reason why we have to retrieve relics from both Venus and Mars which in a way represent the past and present. Since the vex have already invaded and conquered Mars. Living hidden from time and space in their black garden. But have moved to Venus to take over it. Off topic anyway. Idk just food for thought. I've always liked VOG it has a lot of lore to it and is fun to explore. Crota was so straight forward and boring. We just run and cheese through it so fast. Bleh

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        • Edited by Grim: 7/13/2015 2:43:32 AM
          Can I get a reply to come back to the post later?

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          • Awesome idea about the SGA and Kabr never thought of that.

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            • Random thought. Does sga count as misses when it hits gorgons? [spoiler]stupid thought, I know. I'm just curious and a bit uneducated[/spoiler]

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              • What if...bananas could fly?

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                • This is probably nothing, because in all honesty I'm not very caught up on the lore or the grimoire. However, I do know the story of Perseus and Medusa. Have you explored any options with the Eternal Warrior helm for the Titan? It appears to be made of stone, and I haven't done any research on it, but I thought this might be a possibility. If one of the Gorgons are "the Medusa" and we have to make them believe we are not real, what better way to do it than to appear as somebody she has already turned to stone? I don't know, I might just be confused on the comprehension since the lore isn't really my thing, but I wanted to throw it out there, because this is my ALL TIME FAVORITE post. I've never been more intrigued by anything else so I would like to say I at least threw out an alternate route, hopefully one that had not been tested yet.

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                  • I wish destinys story was as rich as the lore

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                    • I don't know if this was just a bug or not, but I've had instances where one player in my reg vog group specifically a Titan, was the only survivor from the gorgons and was immune to their gaze. Only problem is if he tried to leave it would kill him, other than that he was free to explore without them doing anything.

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                      • My thoughts; Is it possible to recreate Kabr's raid? Not all of it, of course. Like chronologically piece how it went and follow what his fire team did. He wasn't able to beat the Templar, right? He hadn't created the Aegis yet. Yet he somehow made it past the Templar. There HAS to be a secret path or sequence. Unless he doesn't remember doing the thing or something. On finding "medusa" I know the Mythoclast has some unique ADS function in the Vault. Perhaps it's possible to use it to find our Medusa? It's very meaning is "to destroy myths". Perhaps it has a function, be it ADS or if everyone used it to kill a Gorgon something would happen.

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                        • This is why I love VoG, almost a year into the game and we are still trying to figure stuff out

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                          • Some myths believed that killing a gorgon could bring the dead back to life. Can defeating ALL of the Gorgons revive Kabr and his team? Maybe it is also possibly to turn the Gorgons themselves into stone, creating a path of stepping stones to make it across the maze without touching the ground. The gorgon head attached to zues' shield (made by Perseus or Athena) still had the power to turn things to stone. They used it to turn atlas to stone, creating mountains. There are plenty of mountains of rock in the maze area. Maybe the Gorgons are used to reach a section that is otherwise unreachable. One myth also relayed that after killing a gorgon, Athena wore it's skin for protection. Maybe like radiant skin? How long are the effects of radiant skin and the extended duration of sun singer powers perk (can't remember the name); will they allow you to make it through the maze untouched? We don't know the exact make up of kabr's fireteam in terms of Titans, hunters and warlocks. Maybe there is a combination of the subclass powers that allow the Gorgons to be defeated easier. A Titan with a shield, a radiant skin warlock, a blade dancing hunter... All things mentioned (more or less) in mythology in connection with defeating Gorgons.

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                            • People are making a no clipping mod on the 360 version. We'll find out soon if there's anything else in VoG.

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                              • Are you on Xbox One? If so please let me know as I am VERY interested in the Vault as well because I do not believe we have found everything there is to find.

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                                • Everything here sounds really interesting, but that idea about going through the Vault backwards sounds [b]especially[/b] intriguing...

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                                  • Did I just read multiple paragraphs just saying Gorgons kill me and I can usually kill one?

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                                    • I am on now and willing to explore a little. inv KirigayaIchigo

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                                      • Has anyone tried to kill them before they see you? Once their gaze lands on you everyone scrambles to kill them. What if you destroy them with the vex before the gorgon gaze occurs? There is a specific reason for the mythoclast weapon because the crota raid didn't have a raid specific exotic. I thought that forcing the Gorgons to look at each other was the key also, but maybe they have to be at certain spots, like on the blue flames, when you kill them for something to happen, like a conflux being formed or something. A way to travel between time and space. I am unclear as to why we haven't used teleports to our advantage in the game anywhere other than transporting into the black garden and during the atheon section of the vault. With the vex using teleportation so much, there must be a way for us to teleport to another time or place, maybe where kabr is still in the vault.

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                                        • I tried putting a blinding bubble on a gorgon... still died. Seems that the helm of St14 doesn't work on them

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                                          • Bump

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                                            • What if you shoot the gorgons with SGA?

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                                              • Kabr became atheon. We have to defeat atheon in a way that will release kabr.

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                                                • Something to add: the titan suppressor grenade [u]stops[/u] the gorgons from wiping you for a bit. Try it. I tossed a suppressor grenade at a gorgon as we were wiping and we got caught in the gaze. We all died and an instant later, we were all revived as my gernade went off. Needless to say, we were all like, "what just happened?!" And then all died as the gaze was still active. If anything, it stops them for a bit. Do what you will with this info :3

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                                                  • KABR couldn't of had the vex saying that it's a reward for destroying the vault of glass. The vex could be connected to another weapon. If in theory Kabr beat Atheon he and his fire team did it without the Vex Mythoclast. Unless the vex is the aegis and after defeating atheon Kabr hid the aegis aka the vex somewhere in the vault and now that we have it it's a key to time travel and stopping the darkness itself.

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                                                  • What if the new void subclass for hunter, the void bow can surppress the gorgons gaze

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