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Edited by ArsenalRL: 7/13/2015 6:43:18 AM
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The Gorgon Paradigm

Let me start by saying this is a long winded post. If you don't care about lore or new creative ideas, just post your trash talking and save yourself the time of reading the entire thing. Bash all you want, you won't be able to b8 me, m8. WHEN WILL BUNGIE STEP IN HERE? IMPORTANT EDITS (SEE #6, 7) [b]The Gorgons[/b] Many of us know the Gorgons very well. We have all been through sneaking past them in the Vault, seeing how many we can kill, and trying to figure out new ways to approach these creatures. This post is my result of research and understanding of the Vault; this being a subtext of that research. The Vault fascinates me, as well as Destiny lore. I do a lot of bashing in these forums but there are sides to the game I thoroughly enjoy. [b]Strategy Alpha[/b] This is the basic strategy. Run past them, sneak past them, go camo and basically ignore their existence. The most common form of completing this checkpoint, and the easiest. [b]Strategy Beta[/b] Shoot as many as you can. This tends to not work. The Gorgons spawn fairly quickly and killing more than 3 gets pretty difficult. [b]Strategy Omega[/b] This is the strategy yet to be defined. This is my strategy. This is your strategy if it works. [i]Basis of Strategy Omega[/i] I want to define this strategy with the community. It may not be possible. But one thing I have learned from the Vault and Bungie is that the Vault represents the unknown as well as the infinity theorem. Basically ESP states all things in time and space are connected. That being said, my basis for Startegy Omega starts with the Gorgon grimoire card. Some of you may have read it, but for those who haven't here it is: [spoiler] Deep in the Vault of Glass, the fabric of reality bends to the will of the Vex. Warlocks speak in tones of awe of the Gorgons - creatures that seem to possess a dreaded, almost unimaginable strength: an ontological weapon. Like the Oracles and the Templar, the Gorgons reputedly possess the ability to define what is and is not real. Whatever they perceive becomes subject to erasure at their will. Until a countermeasure can be found, Guardians must avoid their gaze at all costs - or reply to any detection with immediate, overwhelming force. The Gorgons' ability must be tied to the nature of the Vault of Glass. We can take some solace in the clear fact that the Vex cannot manifest this power in the world outside. [/spoiler] [i]The Breakdown [/i] __________________________________________ Gorgons - creatures that seem to possess a dreaded, almost unimaginable strength: an ontological weapon. __________________________________________ So here we see the basic description of the Gorgons abilities. The word Gorgon derives from the ancient Greek word gorgós, which means "dreadful" (wiki). Ontology is the philosophical study of the nature of being, becoming, existence, or reality, as well as the basic categories of being and their relations (Google). So essentially we see the Gorgons in Destiny as a combined version of the Greek Gorgon and the powers of the Vex Overmind. ______________________________________ Until a countermeasure can be found, Guardians must avoid their gaze at all costs - or reply to any detection with immediate, overwhelming force. ______________________________________ This passage stood out the most for me. It obviously describes Strategy Alpha and Beta. If you cannot see that, you probably can stop reading here. Now, if you are like me, you see a hint at Strategy Omega. "Until a countermeasure can be found". You can paraphrase that legitimately and say "a countermeasure can be found". This might sound optimistic, but optimism is the foundation of success. The fact Bungie readily admits players have not found every secret the Vault contains adds to my enthusiasm. [b]The Countermeasure[/b] Let's take a step back for a moment and get on the same page. If you do not think there is a countermeasure, this article is over for you. If you remain steadfast, this is where it gets interesting. The Greek Gorgons were essentially similar to the Vex Gorgons in that they had the ability to kill by staring. The main mythos from Greece is the ever popular story of Medusa and Perseus. For those unfamiliar, Perseus was a demi-god (can we call Guardians demi-gods?? I would think so) who (in very simple terms for those educated waiting to bash me) defeated Medusa using a mirror-like shield to reflect her image. This is Strategy Omega. EDIT: To clarify, he actually used the shield to get to look at her without being turned to stone so he could get close enough to cut her head off and use that as a weapon. The main point I was trying to make was actually that he used the shield to defeat her essentially. There was a bit of unintentional mis information in the original post, my mistake. [b]Gorgon Suicide[/b] We must find a way. If Strategy Omega exists, it involves Gorgons killing themselves, or each other. This is where we must come together to generate and test ideas. It would involve reflection and intentionally setting off the Gorgon's Gaze. So far, my ideas are some kind of item, armor, or shader; maybe using the abundant water in the maze as a reflection, or maybe using some ability of some subclass or guardian. I haven't tested anything yet as I was excited to share my research with the community. Who will be our Perseus? EDITS: Tested / Debunked theories: [spoiler] -Going invisible and luring two gorgons together and then triggering both gazes while they face each other will not cause the gorgons to kill each other. -There is no specific gorgon that has a different appearance; no "medusa" gorgon. -Using all Vault gear + chatterhwhite + aiming down sights with the Vex Mythoclast will not protect you from the Gorgons. -There is no passage at the top of the back rock. -Cannot really say for sure, but in my case / scenario, the two spots mentioned by Reddit user Zikkah did not yield a chest for me. Here is the link to his post. https://m.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2mtujt/vog_new_chest_gorgons_labyrinth_including_full/ -The helm of saint 14 has no effect on gorgons. -Supressor and flashbangs will not protect you from the Gaze. [/spoiler] 1) Gorgoneion Interesting excerpt from wiki: In Ancient Greece, the Gorgoneion (Greek: Γοργόνειον) was a special apotropaic amuletshowing the Gorgon head, used most famously by the Olympian deities Athena andZeus: both are said to have worn the gorgoneion as a protective pendant.[1] It was assumed, among other godlike attributes, as a royal aegis to imply divine birth or protection, by rulers of the Hellenistic age, as shown, for instance, on the Alexander Mosaic and theGonzaga Cameo. 2)https://youtu.be/nst7XXr_dHU This video shows him cleansing a gorgon. His team dies though before we can see what happens.... By my count he survives for minimum 8 seconds which leads me to believe there is a chance using the aegis will protect you from gorgons, but his aegis was obtained via the gatekeepers,not the templar. More to come. I will test this myself. 3) http://i.imgur.com/OI5bnqB.png A really cool map showing gorgon routes, the chest locations, and a possible hidden passage I will explore today. Credit to the maker of the map, it wasn't me. 4) Recently while driving I came up with another idea. What if the way to unlock more potential loot or Easter eggs is to run BACKWARDS through the ENTIRE vault? It is 100% possible as I have done it, I just haven't done it after beating atheon (there might not be enough time?) This came about while I was thinking about the Vex. The whole idea is that nothing is linear to the Vex. Time doesn't go one way. So why should the raid? Just a thought. 5) Edited the original post to reflect (no pun intended) the true story of medusa and perseus. My original thought revolved around "what if" a gorgon could turn itself or another gorgon into stone aka kill itself or another. I hope I did not mis educate too many people. Thanks for the continued support as I learn more myself. This topic has been awesome. 6) After doing more research I came to a final conclusion. The only way anything makes sense is if there is a hidden aegis. Consider the timeline of Kabr in the Vault. His fire team made it to the gorgons and were dissolved by them. He destroyed a gorgon and made the aegis. So he made the aegis [i]after[/i] the Templar.. and there are 2 while fighting the gatekeepers (past and future) so maybe there is a second hidden AFTER the templar is dead (past and future). Maybe if you go back to the trials of kabr after killing the templar? I will test this myself. A special note: I had to remove some edits to make space for this. This included my shout out to you guys for being awesome. Don't worry, you are still awesome. 7) Ok, insane. I know exactly what happened with Kabr. I did more research and it turns out Kabr was made into the Super Good Advice. " If I speak again, I am not Kabr." "You will meet the Templar in a place that is a time before or after stars. The stars will move around you and mark you and sing to you. They will decide if you are real. I drank of them. It tasted like the sea." ".. The truth may lie in the weapon's connection to the legendary Hunter Pahanin, who witnessed the fall of Kabr and became terrified of traveling alone." Here's the deal. If you shoot the Super Good Advice at Oracles, it actually counts as misses and will return ammo back to the magazine. Coincidence? DISCLAIMER: I TAKE NO CREDIT FOR ORIGINALITY OF ANYTHING IN THIS POST. I did not attempt to steal anyone's ideas or plagiarize anything.

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  • Add me, love this kind of stuff. Willing to explore or try anything if I'm on

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    • I don't recall how many there are, but are there 6 Gorgons by any chance? The Gorgon Gaze stacks when multiple are activated. So, is it possible that 6 fire team members activate all six Gorgons at the same time and then each person kills theirs? I know they are hard to kill, but maybe (???). Of course, this is highly contingent upon there being six Gorgons. Then, maybe the Gorgons don't have enough time after each being destroyed to grow stronger. Just a thought!

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      • Just out of curiosity, how the hell do you get the gorgon grimoire card if no one on the bloody team can kill them? I don't get it...

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        • I read this an thought that just maybe there's a sequence for killing the gorgons in the same way the oracles have a sequence. I've only done vog a few times but love the lore so posts like this are great. Esp in such a toxic forum.

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          • Edited by WinlockLocal: 7/15/2015 6:04:52 AM
            Read the description of the Osiris heavy machine gun, the infinite theorem.

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          • Can you survive the gorgon gaze under 6 bubbles running armor of light?

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            • This guy needs hiring by Bungie

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              • Deep

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                • Edited by ceeMcee129: 7/14/2015 9:14:54 PM
                  Have you tested that secret passage yet? The one from the image you included...

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                  • Someone comment so I can read later

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                    • I heard that super good advice is actually Pahanin's weapon that was used in the vault of glass alongside Kabr

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                      • Have you noticed the strange door looking rock with the circle that has strange lines in it. Its behind the ascendant material chest in the gorgon maze. Not the exotic chest. The other one. Check it out. My guess is its important. Because it looks important. And I want it to be important. I hope its important. Lol.

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                        • [quote]Let me start by saying this is a long winded post. If you don't care about lore or new creative ideas, just post your trash talking and save yourself the time of reading the entire thing. Bash all you want, you won't be able to b8 me, m8. WHEN WILL BUNGIE STEP IN HERE? IMPORTANT EDITS (SEE #6, 7) [b]The Gorgons[/b] Many of us know the Gorgons very well. We have all been through sneaking past them in the Vault, seeing how many we can kill, and trying to figure out new ways to approach these creatures. This post is my result of research and understanding of the Vault; this being a subtext of that research. The Vault fascinates me, as well as Destiny lore. I do a lot of bashing in these forums but there are sides to the game I thoroughly enjoy. [b]Strategy Alpha[/b] This is the basic strategy. Run past them, sneak past them, go camo and basically ignore their existence. The most common form of completing this checkpoint, and the easiest. [b]Strategy Beta[/b] Shoot as many as you can. This tends to not work. The Gorgons spawn fairly quickly and killing more than 3 gets pretty difficult. [b]Strategy Omega[/b] This is the strategy yet to be defined. This is my strategy. This is your strategy if it works. [i]Basis of Strategy Omega[/i] I want to define this strategy with the community. It may not be possible. But one thing I have learned from the Vault and Bungie is that the Vault represents the unknown as well as the infinity theorem. Basically ESP states all things in time and space are connected. That being said, my basis for Startegy Omega starts with the Gorgon grimoire card. Some of you may have read it, but for those who haven't here it is: [spoiler] Deep in the Vault of Glass, the fabric of reality bends to the will of the Vex. Warlocks speak in tones of awe of the Gorgons - creatures that seem to possess a dreaded, almost unimaginable strength: an ontological weapon. Like the Oracles and the Templar, the Gorgons reputedly possess the ability to define what is and is not real. Whatever they perceive becomes subject to erasure at their will. Until a countermeasure can be found, Guardians must avoid their gaze at all costs - or reply to any detection with immediate, overwhelming force. The Gorgons' ability must be tied to the nature of the Vault of Glass. We can take some solace in the clear fact that the Vex cannot manifest this power in the world outside. [/spoiler] [i]The Breakdown [/i] __________________________________________ Gorgons - creatures that seem to possess a dreaded, almost unimaginable strength: an ontological weapon. __________________________________________ So here we see the basic description of the Gorgons abilities. The word Gorgon derives from the ancient Greek word gorgós, which means "dreadful" (wiki). Ontology is the philosophical study of the nature of being, becoming, existence, or reality, as well as the basic categories of being and their relations (Google). So essentially we see the Gorgons in Destiny as a combined version of the Greek Gorgon and the powers of the Vex Overmind. ______________________________________ Until a countermeasure can be found, Guardians must avoid their gaze at all costs - or reply to any detection with immediate, overwhelming force. ______________________________________ This passage stood out the most for me. It obviously describes Strategy Alpha and Beta. If you cannot see that, you probably can stop reading here. Now, if you are like me, you see a hint at Strategy Omega. "Until a countermeasure can be found". You can paraphrase that legitimately and say "a countermeasure can be found". This might sound optimistic, but optimism is the foundation of success. The fact Bungie readily admits players have not found every secret the Vault contains adds to my enthusiasm. [b]The Countermeasure[/b] Let's take a step back for a moment and get on the same page. If you do not think there is a countermeasure, this article is over for you. If you remain steadfast, this is where it gets interesting. The Greek Gorgons were essentially similar to the Vex Gorgons in that they had the ability to kill by staring. The main mythos from Greece is the ever popular story of Medusa and Perseus. For those unfamiliar, Perseus was a demi-god (can we call Guardians demi-gods?? I would think so) who (in very simple terms for those educated waiting to bash me) defeated Medusa using a mirror-like shield to reflect her image. This is Strategy Omega. EDIT: To clarify, he actually used the shield to get to look at her without being turned to stone so he could get close enough to cut her head off and use that as a weapon. The main point I was trying to make was actually that he used the shield to defeat her essentially. There was a bit of unintentional mis information in the original post, my mistake. [b]Gorgon Suicide[/b] We must find a way. If Strategy Omega exists, it involves Gorgons killing themselves, or each other. This is where we must come together to generate and test ideas. It would involve reflection and intentionally setting off the Gorgon's Gaze. So far, my ideas are some kind of item, armor, or shader; maybe using the abundant water in the maze as a reflection, or maybe using some ability of some subclass or guardian. I haven't tested anything yet as I was excited to share my research with the community. Who will be our Perseus? EDITS: Tested / Debunked theories: [spoiler] -Going invisible and luring two gorgons together and then triggering both gazes while they face each other will not cause the gorgons to kill each other. -There is no specific gorgon that has a different appearance; no "medusa" gorgon. -Using all Vault gear + chatterhwhite + aiming down sights with the Vex Mythoclast will not protect you from the Gorgons. -There is no passage at the top of the back rock. -Cannot really say for sure, but in my case / scenario, the two spots mentioned by Reddit user Zikkah did not yield a chest for me. Here is the link to his post. https://m.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2mtujt/vog_new_chest_gorgons_labyrinth_including_full/ -The helm of saint 14 has no effect on gorgons. -Supressor and flashbangs will not protect you from the Gaze. [/spoiler] 1) Gorgoneion Interesting excerpt from wiki: In Ancient Greece, the Gorgoneion (Greek: Γοργόνειον) was a special apotropaic amuletshowing the Gorgon head, used most famously by the Olympian deities Athena andZeus: both are said to have worn the gorgoneion as a protective pendant.[1] It was assumed, among other godlike attributes, as a royal aegis to imply divine birth or protection, by rulers of the Hellenistic age, as shown, for instance, on the Alexander Mosaic and theGonzaga Cameo. 2)https://youtu.be/nst7XXr_dHU This video shows him cleansing a gorgon. His team dies though before we can see what happens.... By my count he survives for minimum 8 seconds which leads me to believe there is a chance using the aegis will protect you from gorgons, but his aegis was obtained via the gatekeepers,not the templar. More to come. I will test this myself. 3) http://i.imgur.com/OI5bnqB.png A really cool map showing gorgon routes, the chest locations, and a possible hidden passage I will explore today. Credit to the maker of the map, it wasn't me. 4) Recently while driving I came up with another idea. What if the way to unlock more potential loot or Easter eggs is to run BACKWARDS through the ENTIRE vault? It is 100% possible as I have done it, I just haven't done it after beating atheon (there might not be enough time?) This came about while I was thinking about the Vex. The whole idea is that nothing is linear to the Vex. Time doesn't go one way. So why should the raid? Just a thought. 5) Edited the original post to reflect (no pun intended) the true story of medusa and perseus. My original thought revolved around "what if" a gorgon could turn itself or another gorgon into stone aka kill itself or another. I hope I did not mis educate too many people. Thanks for the continued support as I learn more myself. This topic has been awesome. 6) After doing more research I came to a final conclusion. The only way anything makes sense is if there is a hidden aegis. Consider the timeline of Kabr in the Vault. His fire team made it to the gorgons and were dissolved by them. He destroyed a gorgon and made the aegis. So he made the aegis [i]after[/i] the Templar.. and there are 2 while fighting the gatekeepers (past and future) so maybe there is a second hidden AFTER the templar is dead (past and future). Maybe if you go back to the trials of kabr after killing the templar? I will test this myself. A special note: I had to remove some edits to make space for this. This included my shout out to you guys for being awesome. Don't worry, you are still awesome. 7) Ok, insane. I know exactly what happened with Kabr. I did more research and it turns out Kabr was made into the Super Good Advice. " If I speak again, I am not Kabr." "You will meet the Templar in a place that is a time before or after stars. The stars will move around you and mark you and sing to you. They will decide if you are real. I drank of them. It tasted like the sea." ".. The truth may lie in the weapon's connection to the legendary Hunter Pahanin, who witnessed the fall of Kabr and became terrified of traveling alone." Here's the deal. If you shoot the Super Good Advice at Oracles, it actually counts as misses and will return ammo back to the magazine. Coincidence? DISCLAIMER: I TAKE NO CREDIT FOR ORIGINALITY OF ANYTHING IN THIS POST. I did not attempt to steal anyone's ideas or plagiarize anything.[/quote]

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                        • Has anyone tried popping a bubble during the gorgons gaze?

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                          • Has anyone tried to go through the VOG door in the future (mars) or past (venus) and back to the gorgon lair? Maybe in the past or future the gorgon wouldn't be there, or they wouldn't be able to discern if you were real or fake because you wouldn't have existed in their database.

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                            • Do you think maybe full vog raid gear may unlock some kind of secrets.

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                              • Great read could make a book off of it

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                                • Edited by MrFisherman35: 7/13/2015 10:53:38 PM
                                  Taking all my experiences in the game and all my runs in the vault together I can only think of one solid conclusion. This came to me as I watched the new TTK video... Where the dude says he won't tell about the secrets in the vault. They set the vault up and it probably had all these extra and hidden stuff in it. Many of which probably include some of your theories. But they took out most of the extra stuff as the game was broken down and split up into the 2 DLCs/ gutted. They left a few things like the extra chest if you kill the Templar with no teleports but most was taken out. I would be willing to bet they add back some of this stuff with TTK so that they can add some interest back into the vault after all the new stuff comes out. Think about it and how bungie has treated us/the game from the start. But who really knows?

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                                  • First thing I thought of was the Titan helm Eternal Warrior. I don't think there is any way to get a relic to the Gorgons ,but a fire.team with Titans is possible. Anyone tried staring down a Gorgon with this helm on?

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                                    • Add me on Xbox One gamertag is Restricted Beta I'm in to explore the VoG more to figure out it's secrets.

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                                      • Helpful tip, the guy doesn't enter the Gorgon maze until 11 minutes in the video. Other than that, great theory.

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                                        • Bump

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                                        • I like your way of thinking, but I don't think Bungie went that far to purposely make this struggle harder than other bosses. Makes for a good read though.

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                                          • I'm in VoG now and it's totally completed on hard mode. The whole raid is "done", yet when you spawn in it's not at the entrance, it's not at Atheon, it's to the labyrinth. I wonder why that is?

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                                            • I really think there has to be something to do with the hidden path. If not, why would it even be there? Has anyone thoroughly looked around down there? Could there be a hidden path within the hidden path?

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                                              • The fact that the gorgon will trigger it's gaze from being shot by a sniper from behind when you're well out of its sight range and hidden tells me Bungie probably didn't put as much time and effort into this encounter as you have outlined here. It would be awesome though.

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