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Edited by Ataksia:
3/2/2015 6:37:10 PM
114
Auto Rifles Nerfed More Than 2.5%
[b]The Problem:[/b] The 1.1.1 patch introduce weapon balancing that was aimed at creating variety in crucible gameplay. This patch however did not outline the true values of how attack values were "nerfed."
[b]The Solution:[/b] Bungie needs to publish more detailed patch patch notes outlining certain archetypes of weapons. This would help us to understand that attack values on high impact - low rate of fire auto rifles were reduced by more that 10%
Auto Rifles
• Reduced base damage of Auto Rifles by
2.5%
• Reduced effective range values
Vanquisher Attack Values Pre-Patch:
Critical - 27
Body - 22
Vanquisher Attack Values Post-Patch:
Critical - 23
Body - 19
Attack Value Reduction in Percent:
Critical - 14.815%
Body - 13.636%
Bungie please refine your patch notes in future patches. The Vanquisher took a 13-15% nerf. Not a 2.5% nerf.
Unfortunately I hear Suros also took a massive nerf like the Vanquisher VIII. In my opinion these patch notes did not tell the whole story. I don't even know where the number 2.5% came from.
The reception from the public would have not have been as positive or accepting if these values were released. It is for this reason alone that I feel like your dev team published a reduced base attack value of 2.5% even if it applies to only one particular rifle. I feel this is extremely shady on your part Bungie and should be addressed immediately!
Edit: To be clear I do like the patch in most aspects however I do not tolerate the lack of information in the 1.1.1 patch notes. You can obviously see that my Vanquisher VIII took more of a hit around the 13-15% range. That's insane! In my personal opinion they need to revert auto rifles back to the way they were. They just are not competitive anymore.
Edit 2: I seems that my personal opinion mentioned in my last edit is a whole argument in itself. I purely want to focus on the lack of information given to us in the most recent patch notes. This thread would not have existed if we had detailed information regarding the fact that auto rifle were nerfed based on time to kill.
English
#feedback
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9 RepliesI agree. Bungie's biggest problem right now is their lack of clarity when they do things. They did talk about how they were nerfing auto rifle averaged across rate of fire, but thats the furthest they went into it as seen below. Changes: Reduce base damage of Auto Rifles by 2.5% (averaged across Rate of Fire stats, higher RoF took less of a reduction than low RoF) Reduce effective range values so that damage falloff and accuracy are a stronger factor in combat decisions Range reduction is less severe in the higher stat values, so now your range stat is more critical to long distance engagements This was taken from the dev team article about the weapon balancing patch. If I had to guess the dev teams intent with this style of nerf was to not only nerf auto rifles, but bring high rate of fire auto rifles (think aetheon's epilogue) more in line with the slower RoF auto-rifles like vanquisher VIII shadow price and Suros Regime. it would have been nice if they has said something like: "autorifles are recieveing a damage reduction ranging from x% to X% where higher RoF will likely fall in the lower end of this range and slower RoF weapons will likely fall ing teh higher end of this range" or maybe even a chart showing RoF of the auto rifle plotted against damage reduction by percentage.
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It's pretty disappointing to see such drastic changes. I realize they are trying to push people to use pulse rifles but pulse rifle recoil control is very annoying and hard to get used to. I think they didn't realize that many players avoided pulse rifles partly because of the recoil factor.
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14 RepliesIt has killed the game for me. I simply don't trust the developers any more. Why spend my time levelling up any gun when I know the devs may make it useless at any time. It's a totall fail of a way to conduct game development...
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2 RepliesIf I'm not mistaken, I believe the patch notes states that it was an average of 2.5% nerf on autos. Unfortunately, that average must take into account an awful lot of bullet hoses that were already garbage to start with. My poor Vanquisher VIII and Up for Anything are so painful to use now that I don't even want to equip them anymore. I definitely feel your pain.
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Edited by V8pesOnMic: 3/3/2015 5:20:15 AM
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Please add something like below to one of your edits. Im sick of people quoting that its a "2.5% average" and not understanding simple math. The "2.5% average" is not possible based on simple math. We know from the numbers above (I have verified with suros and its very similar) that low ROF rifles took about a 14% nerf at point blank range or "base damage". In order for a 2.5% average to be accurate, mathematically 82% of all auto rifles would have received no nerf whatsoever. We all know this isnt the case as very high ROF guns like atheons epilogue were hit with around a 7% nerf.
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I don't see why they don't just Nerf the auto rifles in PvP and spare them I'm PvE. They did a PvE only buff in the last patch so why not just change the damage in PvP?
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1 ReplyEdited by Lord Fried: 3/2/2015 9:18:01 PMYea, both of my Vanquishers and Shadow Price are in my vault now. Haven't checked out the Suros in PvP yet but I'm now using Monte Carlo and Up For Anything as my go to PvP AR's. For PvE, I just use a scout or Abyss Defiant.
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So just to test out Vanquisher for myself, I took my 331 Vanquisher and 331 B-Line into the level 30 daily and weekly earlier. From close to mid range: B-Line was hitting for crits of 712 Vanquisher was hitting for crits of 308 Considering that Vanquisher could fire off 3 rounds to every 1 from B-Line, I don't see the issue.
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3 RepliesBump. Nerf only the range! Auto rifles were meant to be general weapons. And when Iron banner came out there is a specific bounty for Auto rifles. So how the hell would they not expect us to use AR's!?
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There were a few things not mentioned. They did fix the double bounty glitch
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3 RepliesEdited by RaveEX: 3/2/2015 10:41:32 PMARs are still good, a lot of people in the comments need to stop crying and learn how to use them.
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I agree with this post. I know it is hard to be specific about weapon damage changes, but it would be nice to get a clearer picture in the patch notes. That or go completely opaque about the process. THAT SAID...I have a vanquisher as well and have used it successfully since the update. The slow ROF autos are not completely worthless, they just won't win a 1v1 with someone who has a red death. BUT (and it is a big ol' but) ARs in general are now far outclassed by pulse rifles. (RIP my sharded focus fire shingen-e. ) I kept my stranger's rifle because I knew even pre-patch it was a good gun for crucible. Now it wrecks. I mean easy to clear a whole team wrecks. My games since the patch have all been better because I switched over to using SR or Bad Seed Down, etc. I think it's tough to call this patch a balance as it has really shifted anyone who wants to excel from using ARs to having to use a pulse rifle. I should add I always liked pulse rifles and my bad seed down was the first gun I maxed out. I personally can roll with the updates as anyone who plays competitive shooters online has forever. When guns get nerfed it's on to the next one. When pulse rifles are brought low some time in the future we will all be using something else.
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1 ReplyThey nerfed for multiple reasons. Fore most is the fact almost no one uses pulse rifles. Not everyone likes them. Personally my Bad JuJu is the bomb. You based your main reason for the nerf of AR was the use in IB. So you put a bounty on there for head shots with an AR. Fine you want that, great you got it. When you go into combat I am going to leave my best guns at home right? That is like taking a yearling in the Kentucky Derby, while you have Man O War ready to run. Bungie's reasons make no sense, you want us to use pulse rifles? Jump them up, want us to use shotties? Fix them, just don't cut what people like because that is not the way we intended you to play the game you bought and paid for. Just saying.
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5 RepliesIf you read the full patch notes, the [i]average[/i] was 2.5%. It specifically stated that high impact/low RoF would be affected more than low impact/high RoF. Beyond that, the damage falls off at range, so any numbers being thrown up are pretty meaningless because there's no telling what range those numbers are from.
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1 ReplyEdited by dbButlerdb: 3/2/2015 8:20:29 PMThe suros is a nerf gun now not even a paintball gun or pellet gun. Grr Sadly I upgraded it to contend with the damage decrease and regret it
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Just posted on auto rifles. Good read
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Honestly, if they measure how buffs/nerfs should go by usage, if no one uses ARs, they'll have to buff them because "people aren't playing the way the game is meant to be played."
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This is a genuine concern of mine. I don't even use auto rifles but I know they need to be buffed again. I completely agree with this thread. Bump.
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2 RepliesIt's a shame this guy is posting a genuine argument about a legit problem and all people can do is say he's whining or bitching. Can we say something without degrading someone for once? Or just admit that the patch was spot on except for the auto rifle nerf?
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3 RepliesA legitimate post. Thank you. And they nerf'd shotguns? I don't see where. They are being used just as much if not more now after 1.1.1. Bungie doesn't have a clue on how to balance these weapons in PvP.
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1 ReplyThe atheon's epilogue took a massive hit.. It used to be one of my favorite close range chainsaws, but it won't even kill a level 30 red health cabal in one whole clip
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2 RepliesI love my Suros still even after the Nerf. It's harder especially with slower ROF autos right now because every shot hitting is so important now. But I have one constructive criticism... I have seen a few of these posts with the same math you used. I thought it was a 2.5% decrease in DPS, not per shot damage. You need to add in the value for time. That 14% decrease on each bullets damage should be close to a 2.5% drop in overall DPS. I can see why in PvP it's so important because needing one more precision shot to take someone down could mean you're dead before you get that bullet off. But they needed to fix something. It was all auto's and hand cannons the last time I was doing crucible. It doesn't make autos obsolete, just not the clear overall winner. I know this thought won't be popular but overall balance is needed for the longevity of this game
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Too bad the stealth Q&A with the developers was too short and not properly announced for anyone to point that out. The nerf has also brought more people depending on their shotgun, since TTK at a distance is now a joke.
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Yeah suros took a 14.6% nerf
