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8/8/2018 6:44:16 PM
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Savathun, Taken, Xol, Forsaken, Uldren, Mara - The Dreaming City

<I'm going to be honest, last time I felt this excited was Rise of Iron. Seriously the trailers were good, regardless of DLC quality... one thing Bungie does amazingly. By the way, this post is going to be all over the place but bear with me. Nevertheless, the video linked is about the Dreaming City. Before we get into and assuming someone who reads this doesn't know what it is, the Dreaming City is the endgame destination to be introduced in Forsaken. It is the "birthplace" of the Awoken. It was abandoned for a while due to the Reef collapsing into lawlessness due to a combo of factors. 1. The Battle of Saturn and the loss of their offensive fleet to Oryx 2. The Red War 3. The Scorn 4. The reappearance of Uldren and the release of the Scorn + some Hive and a Taken resurgence Despite the Scorn being the "big bad army" of the expansion, the Dreaming City is DOMINATED by Taken. Those Taken who once belonged to Oryx now belong to someone way worse, Savathun. She has always wanted the power to Take and now she has it, using it on Vex and at least one Red Legion Bloodguard Phalanx. She also leads the spawn on Titan, with numerous commanders belonging to her. She's also known for being a master manipulator, infiltrating dozens of societies and taking them down from within. When Uldren was revealed to be the enemy of Forsaken's campaign, it was said that he heard voices in his head. This is a step forward from his state at the end of the Taken War, where he just felt a bit of starlight, possibly from his sister. So, Uldren's probably going insane, which could take his already irritable mood to the extreme, which would explain allying with the Scorn and the desire for power. Mara on the other hand was much more reserved. Last time we saw her, she was executing a plan to kill Oryx by doing whatever was necessary to get rid of his fleet in order for US, the Guardians, to get in and murder him... twice. But let's go deeper because many have said that she never died. [quote]Oryx attacked the Harmonious Flotilla Invincible, who guarded the Nicha Thought-ship. When the Flotilla surrounded his Dreadnaught, Oryx put his sword into the hull, and he used the power of the Deep (and the clever systems his daughters built) to push his throne-world out into mere reality.[/quote] Behold, the power of Oryx's Dreadnaught, seen as a mighty blast. A blast that broke the laws of physics so, one that unrealistically maintains a massive hole in the rings of Saturn. One that pushed his Throne inside out. I already went over how I thought the Blast worked a while ago in a post I cannot fully remember. A shortened version is that the walls of the blast act like the Ascendant Portals we tried to entire in the mission Enemy of my Enemy. Instead of going through, it pushed us back. Imagine that but on a planet-wide scale. I also theorized that Ascendant Hive may have survived the blast by retreating into the AP or being absorbed into it. Well, let me present you a possibility. The Techuens and Mara Sov are extremely powerful beings. It's possible that they were strong enough to survive the blast, merely being absorbed. This would leave them trapped in the Ascendant Plane. I don't think I have to go over the process for Taking. In the video above, we see numerous glimpses of TAKEN TECHUEN WITCHES. That's right, Taken Awoken... that's as close to Taken Humans we're gonna get. Also they have Darkness shields, the first ever seen and one we better get used to because I'm pretty sure the "5th" Race will have them in D3, too. Either way, with this revelation, we can theorize that them being absorbed might not be so farfetched. Now, Savathun leads the Taken, so it doesn't matter if it was Oryx who took them or of she did because she's leading them NOW. So these Techuens are under her control. Now I'm going to tell you a little tid-bit that some may not know. The Fanatic, the initial Scorn Baron, uses TAKEN ENERGY to resurrect and warp his fellow Scorn. Hence the "Dark Ether" that surges through them. Let's not forget that Uldren is allied with these Dark beasts. What does Xol have to do with this? Well, he is a Worm God, and despite him being the weakest, a shit ton of power comes with. He is known for resurrection along with his herald, Nokris. Xol, recently, has spoken to the Taken (and we know how leads THEM) and 3 bosses from our past were resurrected. At the same time, Nokris's brood have tried to contact Savathun (hint hint). So let's combine what we know, come up with some batshit crazy theories and hope ours stick. I'll start with mine. Mara and the Techuens were absorbed into the Throne World, allowing at least the latter to become Taken by either Oryx or Savathun. After Oryx's and Malok's death, Savathun gets her wishes and becomes the Taken Queen. She then uses her knowledge to infiltrate Titan and the Dreadnaught with a small fleet, occasionally Taking here and there in order to draw attention away from her operation. She then sees an opportunity with the now broken Uldren, using Mara to create the familiar twinkle of starlight and whisper to him, causing him to go insane over time whether he realizes it or not. When the Grasp of Nokris call Savathun, she answers by absorbing and Taking them into her faction, using some of their knowledge to make herself more powerful. Whatever happens here is up for debate but a Taken Xol COULD be possible, keep an eye out for that. Either way, the Scorn are unleashed later on and shit starts getting real. Savathun infiltrates the Dreaming City through the Taken. At the end of the campaign, Savathun could be revealed as the big bad of it all, but it's possible it'll just be a "woah the Dreaming City's going -blam!-ing crazy". At the end of the raid, assuming scenario 2 happens, Savathun could THEN be revealed as the big bad, hopefully not dying so we can get a full story next expansion. Instead, we get to kill Uldren (for Cayde) and are forced to kill Mara (whether she is Taken or just corrupted is unknown). This ends the Sov Dynasty. Meanwhile, Savathun gets to laugh as she does her thing. That is just a possibility. Share your own insane thoughts as I struggle to figure out who that one Wizard is that is just staring off into the abyss. Whoever she is has my tastes. I don't blame her, that shit's pretty.>

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  • My idea. Of course Mara and the Techeuns survived the blast. The taken Techeun proves this indefinitely.Before her fight with ORyx she mentions how she was born a strained relationship with her creators hinted. Uldren knows his sister is alive goes looking for her, remember he landed on Mars form Saturn. Now if Mara Sov mentioned how she was born, and survived the blast. What if the blast sent her and techeuns far away or rather they managed to go back to the safest place. The womb/ dreaming city so the queen can recover. However factor in that at some point the taken have grabbed hold of this place, corruption starts, someone/thing ants to take over, they've already hinted at a dragon. If whispers dont make you think of Ahamkara oh well but that's what that dragon is Taken or not. Now Uldren knows where his sister is, the dreaming city, overrun by taken and he cant even get there. Remeber, no fleet, no awoken really.They just lost the majority of their fallen alliance. SO he looks for new fallen allies, fails, the only who can help are lawless criminals with a pack of zombies but oh well. Uldren makes the tough call to use whatever means to try and save his city and people. And sadly he kills cayde in the process

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    • I think it’ll be an ahamkara specifically eao. Or a different one but in age of triumph you remember those consumables called knuckles of eao, “Boons I grant you oh bearer mine but debts must be paid in time” and the bones of eao “defy extinction”

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      • Edited by BioCats: 8/8/2018 7:47:33 PM
        There is still the question of the beast the lies within the Dreaming City. There are three possibilities right now that I can think of: 1) An Ahamkara, as there is the mention of a “curse” involved based on the trailer. The raid is also HEAVILY fantasy themed, so a Dragon would fit right in. 2) A Worm God. Which, I do not know, but my glimmer is on either a Taken Xol, or the more likely Yul. 3) Savathun, because she has the ‘Mother morph’ which for all we know made her EXTRA THI-[i]<Transmission Lost>[/i]

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        • Edited by Lämp: 8/9/2018 2:51:45 PM
          Crazy what if here but maybe it's an enemy type we have never seen before. I mean it's supposed to be the birth place of the awoken right? So what if the raid boss is whatever [i]created[/i] the awoken in the first place? Edit: and I'm thinking along the lines of Mara knew it was there but part of her duty as queen was to keep it in check type of thing. Not sure how long it has supposed to have been in game since she disappeared but probably long enough for something like that to have happened.

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          • Wow... Fighting Mara in the end? It would hurt to pull the trigger when we got to that dps phase. I feel you on the trailers though. Bungie makes those trailers look like a preview of the 2nd Coming!

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          • Goddammit does this mean more taken. I hate those -blam!-ers

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          • Bet Eris morn is savathun in disguise

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            • Everything in this is gonna be 100% true

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            • I'm calling it now. Mara is gonna be the raid boss and she's gonna be taken. All hail Mara Sov, the Taken Queen!

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            • With bungie going down this dark path I’d like to see the Mindbender Baron really mess with our head. One moment we are fighting the hive then all of a sudden they turn into cayde and we have to kill them

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            • Holy wall of text Batman!!

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            • Really crazy what if Mara sol became savathun? Same goes for Eris morn hmmm

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            • Edited by Natdeguerre: 8/9/2018 11:53:03 AM
              Isn’t it possible that Uldren goes into a deal with the scorn with a clear mind? If Mara and her techuns really have been taken, he may see the scorns connection with taken or resurrection powers as his best way in to try and save his sister. He is in it for his family, he doesn’t give a rats ass about guardians or city politics so his alliance with the fanatic may seem insane to us, but for him its just a practical means to an end. The voice he’s hearing could still be his sister trying to reach out. Hearing voice in this magic universe doesn’t necessarily mean you’re losing it. P.S. nice theorizing though.

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            • they aren't fully taken tho.

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              • intresting

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              • It is my belief that Eris made contact with savathun on the moon, and together they made a pact against oryx. We know that Eris and the queen are working together in the taken king period. It is believable that the queen and her techeuns were taken upon savathun claiming the taken throne. I don’t believe uldren is taken or being controlled. But I absolutely believe he is loyal to a fault to his sister. Whether Mara is being controlled or is doing whatever she’s doing of her own free will is up for grabs, but I believe he is doing his sister’s bidding (perhaps a ruse from savathun). I’ve had the theory that we as guardians are in fact not necessarily on the “good guys” side. Uldren touches on this in the last trailer. It’s always possible that he and his sister have witnessed something that changed their mind about good and evil. Perhaps they have aligned with savathun of their own free will, and the traveler is the true enemy. Perhaps they have embraced the taken power in attempt to snuff us out once and for all. The taken curse may not be a curse after all, and might act similarly to the light. As far as the beast lurking in the dreaming city goes, it’s not completely far fetched to believe that it could in fact be Mara sov. She has immense power combined with her techeuns, and we may come face to face with an exaggerated version of her in the form of a dragon in the depths. Of course oryx became an exaggerated version of himself, so I could see a very intimidating version of savathun taking shape in the ascendant realm in the dreaming city. Perhaps she has made the dreaming city into her throne world. This would explain the ascendant realm in the dreaming city. The very presence of an ascendant realm means there is a very powerful ascendant being residing in the dreaming city. But there is also the possibility that one (or all) of the worm gods have made their way to the dreaming city. There is also the possibility that an ahamkara has survived and is lurking in the depths of the city. As far as nokris and xol go, I think their part in our story is over. Xol will live on in the form of our whisper, but I think that is the end of it. There is an alternative side to this though. We’ve heard many plots that put Mara in the position to become sort of a “pirate rogue queen”. Perhaps she isn’t aligning with the taken power in the dreaming city. I’m sure we will run across her at some point, but perhaps she will be on our side and will help fight against this unknown taken force. One thing is for sure, savathun will have a part to play in all of this, whether we see her this September or next September. Someone is lurking on the dreadnaught after all if we are to go there. Oryx still has one sister left after we steamroll savathun, just something to think about.

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                • "Shields up! Protect the Queen! Brace for impact! Save the Queen—" —Paladin Yasmin Eld. Flavor text from the sniper Defiance of Yasmin of the Oryx raid. The Techeuns? or mages that were near the queen (the ones that helped her form her big energy blasts) more than likely used all their power and sacrificed themselves to save Mara. As to why the mages appear taken now? Could be tied to Savathun. During "The Coming War" in D1 when we first experienced the taken ooze, ghost said it was trying to form a symbiosis with the legionary on top of it. Ghost said it required a living host though and the legionary was already dead. Needing a living host appears to be a limitation of only oryx though. We have seen several instances in D2 of taken enemies that were known to be deceased. The red legion guy from lake of shadows and the three bosses in The Whisper mission.

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                  • Considering Savathun can take Awoken (which have Light in them) she could be getting close to being able to take Guardians. We know that Mara and the Techeuns survived the attack on the Dreadnaught, and there was some time between that and Savathun being able to take. It could be possible that Mara was able to contact Uldren while she was in the Ascendant Realm and get him to amass a Fallen army in hopes of saving her and the other Awoken trapped in there. When Savathun became Taken Queen she found the Awoken and took them. She then used a Taken Mara to puppet Uldren into madness, knowing he could sense the corruption in Mara. This sent the Reef into further disarray as Uldren attacked it out of madness. This allowed Savathun to carry out her plans on Titan, the Dreadnaught, and the Dreaming City without Awoken interference. We then kill Uldren, forcing her to send out the Taken Awoken to stop us from interfering while she figures out how to take us. In fact, this could also shed some light on why Uldren is trying to kill us and kills Cayde. We killed Oryx and Malok, which gave Savathun the power to take and got his sister taken. Plus, ya know, he’s going crazy and Savathun is puppeting him. I know it’s similar to yours, but I had to throw it out there.

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                    • Bump

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                    • Savathun needs to have next to nothing to do with this.

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                      • Edited by IceApfel: 8/8/2018 9:51:38 PM
                        I used to really disapprove of Mara being the Raid boss. Not from a lore perspective, but just from the gameplay. I just could not see a tiny humanoid being a fightable enemy. But now, with the Techeuns (is that spelled right? I don’t remember there being an O) being revealed as enemies, I have changed my mind. It also fits with Bungie stating that they wanted to step away from the “evil monster” type of main enemy. God damm, I really think this is happening, the more I think about it. Although I would hope for Savathun to reveal herself in the raid, I don’t think she will physically be there. Does not seem like a Bungie thing to start new plot lines in a raid. But that still leaves the “big monster under the city” open. It [b]has[/b] to have a connection to the taken. So my very first idea of an Ahamkara is out. And I don’t think Savathun is currently residential in the Dreaming City. Also, I propose the shot with the big witch and three knights is from a new strike in the Dreaming City, the Witch being the boss and a “herald of Savathun” kinda deal.

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                        • This whole mess wreaks of a ruse. Savathun is the queen of ruses. I have no doubt that savathun is the mastermind behind all of this, but we may have to wait a year to confront her about it. There’s plenty of possibilities for a raid boss, but I think Mara is the prime candidate. I’m sure we’ll get an exaggerated version of her. I’m just wondering if the new sentinel Reinhardt shield can block a techeun blast at this point.

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                        • Ooh, I actually cannot wait. Large open spaces, a butt-ton of Blight [i]everywhere,[/i] more Hive (Woo!) and jumping puzzles, which are usually my favorite parts about raids. One thing I was actually reading about on the Destiny Wiki (maybe not the most accurate source to go to, but nevertheless) the Techeuns that survived after the Taken War partnered with the Reef to harness and take control of [i]Taken[/i] energies, in which Petra reluctantly agreed to. Either taking control of the Taken energy backfired, or someone had a hand in it failing...? That’s what I think happened to the Dreaming City at least.

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                        • I'm probably remembering it incorrectly, but I thought they said that it didn't have anything to do with savathun during the game informer ama.

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                          • Hyped.

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                          • Edited by HiddenAlignment: 8/8/2018 7:45:17 PM
                            I’ll share my theory, but it will probably be terrible, so correct me if I get anything wrong. I’m believing that this Taken Awoken propaganda is just one big experiment to Savathûn. I’m sticking to my beliefs that she is trying to find a way to take guardians. I think she hasn’t taken any guardians yet (at least not that I’m aware of) because she is having a bit of trouble with taking things filled with light. Since the Awoken have light, as well as darkness inside of them, they could prove to be adequate test subjects.

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